on1 or on2 [Archive] - Salsa Forums

salseroito

07-02-2004, 10:23 PM

Hello everyone, I started taking salsa classes this year and am already on my sixth month. When I started I didn't know that there are different kinds of salsa. I just went with what was taught at the studio which is on1. Now I'm not sure if I 'm studying the right salsa. From what I've heard on2 seems to be a more beautiful dance. Are there any of you who dance both on1 and on2? I'm not sure of I should switch. Which one is the most popular and is it true that with on2 you are more connected with the music than with the on1?

peachexploration

07-02-2004, 11:13 PM

Hi BuddingSalsero. Welcome to the SF. :) I always tell beginners to do research about the different styles of salsa before you actually start classes. In your research, talk to friends, join a few forums (like this one :wink: ) and talk to a few instructors about what they teach. Always good to have an idea about what you're learning before you start.

You're already halfway there. :lol: Now, to move on, they are other things to take into consideration. Firstly, it depends on the area in which you live. If you're mainly in an area where On1 is most popular, you may run into a few problems like not be able to progress because you will be quite limited in the ability to practice/discover your On2 or any other style because it is not done in your area. It wouldn't be impossible, but difficult. Personally, I think both styles are equally beautiful. It just depends on the individuals preference. I'm just learning On2 and love it. But I also love On1 & Casino Rueda. If you really feel comfortable with On1 and find On2 interesting, take a class or a workshop just to see how it feels and then make your choice or even do both. You don't have stick to one style. Hope this helps. :D

SDsalsaguy

07-03-2004, 06:17 AM

Heya buddingsalsero, welcome to the Salsa Forums! :D

As far as what style to dance, I'd say your best bet is just to dance a style that is popular in the area and venues you are most likely to frequent. Aside from that, although on2 seems to be expanding a bit, on1 is by far the most common form worldwide. As for aesthetics, everyone has their own preference, but no style can really be any more "beutiful" than any other... on1, on2, NY2... they all use the same number of steps, across the same number of beats, to the same music after all.

sagitta

07-04-2004, 12:00 PM

All the various dance styles just give you some of the tools to express yourself. It's not the particular style, but how you use the tools that make you a dancer. So I would go with the style popular in your area as you will have the opportunity to obtain the tools necessary to become the dancer that you want to be.

squirrel

07-05-2004, 04:21 AM

Welcome to the SF! I agree to the above fully! Any style is interesting and I would learn them all! then you can choose! But you won't be limited to just one style... after all, Salsa is Salsa, whether it's on 1 or on 2 or Rueda or anything else!

Lucy

07-05-2004, 09:30 AM

I always thought Mambo on 1 ... Salsa on 2 ..... Starting on 1 always gave me a headache :lol:

SDsalsaguy

07-05-2004, 10:35 AM

Hiya Lucy, and welcome to the Salsa Forums! :D

Although I am definately in the camp that considers it all variations of the same thing, the typical convention generally used is on1 = salsa and on2 = mambo.

peachexploration

07-05-2004, 09:02 PM

Hi Lucy. Welcome to the SF. :D

squirrel

07-06-2004, 03:15 AM

hi, Lucy, welcome!

yes, this is what I also know: Salsa on 1, Mambo on 2

Danoo

07-06-2004, 12:08 PM

yes i step forward on 1 :)

peachexploration

07-06-2004, 12:27 PM

Hi Danoo! Welcome to the SF Family. :D

ann

07-06-2004, 01:32 PM

I just attended the Philly congress. Philly dances mainly on 1, with the exception of a group fo very advanced dancers. Most of the guys that asked me danced on 2, and I had to follow. They were awesome dancers! Most congresses are now dancing a lot on 2 and have the workshops there to support this. I have an easier time when the music is "Mambo", but a very fast Salsa is difficult. New York congress is in August and will be offering a lot of beginner on 2 workshops. That is what I will be attending. There is so much more that I can do on 1. I want to do the right dance with the right music and people. We all need to know both!

Danoo

07-06-2004, 02:03 PM

lol thx :)
im sure ill enjoy it here :)

MacMoto

07-07-2004, 04:31 AM

Hi buddingsalsero,
Now I'm not sure if I 'm studying the right salsa. From what I've heard on2 seems to be a more beautiful dance. Are there any of you who dance both on1 and on2? I'm not sure of I should switch.
In my opinion, the "right salsa" is the style most popular in your area. Find out what style is commonly danced in your local salsa scene and learn that style -- that ensures that you will never be short of partners to dance with. If you learn NY on2 and everybody else in your area dances Cuban (Casino) style, then you will face a very confused partner every time you dance.

I live in a two-centre salsa scene, with Glasgow predominantly Cuban style and Edinburgh strongly LA oriented. Although you can learn both styles in either city (and I dance both), a few Glasgow-based LA style leaders have told me that they feel they need to start learning Cuban style because many girls in Glasgow (well, beginners anyway) haven't got a clue about how to follow LA style.

is it true that with on2 you are more connected with the music than with the on1?

Ah, the "dancing on clave" argument! Perhaps this article by Edie the Salsafreak may interest you.
http://www.dancefreak.com/stories/dancing_on_clave.htm

I get so sick and tired of people trying to ram the concept of "Dancing on Clave is only on "2" down our throats. If you really think about it, and want to get technical, the Clave is five beats, so who on earth decided to ad an extra step in there to make the dance a six-step, kind of halfing and "cheating" on a Clave rhythm. Hm? Think about
it!

Don't get me wrong...

I ADORE dancing on "2" - that's when I'm dancing to the 2-3 Clave!

AND.... Get this...

I also ADORE dancing on "1" - that's when I'm dancing to the 3-2 Clave!

There are so many different Clave beats, that if you truly, truly danced to the Clave, you would break both on the "one" for a 3-2 Clave, and then you could also decide to break on the "two" for a 2-3 Clave. (Rumba or Son Claves) These are only two types of Claves... THERE ARE OTHERS!!!

JaneMas

07-09-2004, 01:33 PM

Question? If you dance on 1 then you don't know how to Mambo. If you dance on 2 then your not a "Salsa" dancer? Rather your a Mambo dancer. Is that correct?
________
The Sanctuary of Truth Pattaya (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

peachexploration

07-10-2004, 01:15 PM

JaneMas, my personal opinion is that you're a dancer that chooses a particular style of salsa. Salsa has many facets but the dancer chooses a particular area or all facets of Salsa. To me, it's all the same. You're not designated a "salsa" dancer per se if you dance to a particular beat. Depending on where you are in the world, Salsa is dance to different beats, On1, On2, On3, etc. Anyone else?

salsachinita

07-10-2004, 09:47 PM

Agreed, PeachE 8) !

The ability to dance on different beats is nothing more then tools which you used to convey yourself in motion to the music.

Salsa, mambo, call it what you wish. You are the kind of dancer you choose to be........and the definition of that is how you connect with your partner & music.

Learn the tools, as if you are learning a language (ok, there might be a need to learn a few variation within the same language). Then how you use that language to communicate, it's entirely up to you.

*btw, I'm in the process of learning 'a second dialect' (ie on2 :wink: ) for better communication*

JaneMas

07-12-2004, 12:47 AM

My Point is that it's all MAMBO. The dance is Mambo whether it's on 1 2 3 or 4. I never saw anyone teach salsa. When they claim they do, they start off (or try) with mambo.
________
buy property in Pattaya (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

SDsalsaguy

07-12-2004, 01:28 AM

Its all mambo or its all salsa... either way its all the same.

squirrel

07-12-2004, 02:48 AM

What exactly is the point of these endless discussions about on1, on2, on3... :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

JaneMas

07-12-2004, 08:01 AM

You have to excuse me, but why get upset when ones views are different? Isn't a forum a place to exchange views and learn? Or are we suppose to agree on everything? As I read, and I do learn from you guys, but some comments do not make sense to me and only me...so I question it, mainly because it contradicts itself. And the response I get is:

What exactly is the point of these endless discussions about on1, on2, on3...
So the discussions are ok if I agree or not question it? This is a good forum. Hopefully the freedom to question continues....
________
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SDsalsaguy

07-12-2004, 10:35 AM

JaneMas…I think you are misreading squirrel's point slightly.* For her, the discussion is pointless, so she's not saying don't have it but, rather, asking what the point of it is for those who think it worth debating…just her opinion as yours is t o you.

I do think that some of us can get a bit wary of some of these timing discussions though, simply because of how divisive we have seen them become in the past – both in our own local scenes and in various online settings. This has nothing to do with you, of course, but with our concern for keeping this forum free of the negativity and even personal attacks that sometimes develop elsewhere and, unfortunately, often are the fruit of exactly such discussions.

I hope this helps put things in perspective and please do continue to share and express your views be they the same, different, or anywhere in between, from any others you see expressed here.

—Jonathan

* Sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth squirrel, and please do correct me if I'm wrong on this.

peachexploration

07-12-2004, 04:27 PM

...I hope this helps put things in perspective and please do continue to share and express your views be they the same, different, or anywhere in between, from any others you see expressed here....

Thanks SD. JaneMas, I share SD's statements and thoughts as well. Please continue to share with us. :D

squirrel

07-13-2004, 02:22 AM

JaneMas... I am sorry and apologize if I offended you in any way... that was certainly not my intention! But, as SD put it, the time you dance to seems so irrelevant to me, yet it makes people argue endlessly...
I have a friend who lives somewhere in the States and she told me on2 is real dancing, on1 is useless... I am an on1 dancer, but I've also danced on2 and on3... still, I cannot say the time I dance to matters, as long as I go with the music... Please see Edie "The Salsa Freak" Espinosa's article on salsafreak.com... she addresses this issue perfectly, IMHO.
Of course, I didn't mean to imply people should not talk about it! I was just trying to say the importance placed on it is too high!
Again, I didn't mean to offend you! And also please consider the fact that English is not my native language (I am Romanian - I've always lived in Romania and I haven't yet visited an English speaking country) so I might not use the appropriate phrasing sometimes.

MacMoto

07-13-2004, 06:58 AM

Hi JaneMas
My Point is that it's all MAMBO. The dance is Mambo whether it's on 1 2 3 or 4. I never saw anyone teach salsa. When they claim they do, they start off (or try) with mambo.
Perhaps this is more of a local terminology issue rather than on1 vs. on2? Where do you live?

I live in the UK, and people here dance and teach salsa. We call it salsa, whether it's on1, on2, Cuban style, NY style, LA style, London style, whatever. I understand, however, that in NY, where the dominant timing is on2, many people prefer the name mambo to describe their dancing (which to us Brits is "salsa on2"). There's also an issue of ballroom studios offering salsa teaching, which is quite rare in the UK but apparently very common in the US, and this "ballroom salsa" may be salsa on1, salsa on2 or the mambo of the 40s...

borikenSalsero

07-13-2004, 09:02 AM

It is all a terminology thing, we all call it what is commonly used where each one of us is from, which makes none of us wrong, it just makes it different... The issue arises/arguments/attacks when we look to prove others wrong, instead of embracing the difference... It doesn't matter what its called in NY because in other parts of the world it might very well be called Salsa. A difference that causes people to not see one and argue to correct others.

On the flip side, if we were looking to be politically correct, and take a "purist" view, then the dance is Mambo, the music is Salsa. Mambo is danced both to the music Mambo, and the Music Salsa.

To me it is interchangeable, I say Salsa, and Mambo to refer to the dance regardless of who I speak to, I assume that the person knows that I mean the dance that goes to salsa music, which ever it might be. from there we can break it down by regional styles...

An educated convo about the issue can be very intriguing, but as well have all experienced from other forums, how many times does that happen.

JaneMas

07-13-2004, 12:01 PM

hi, Lucy, welcome!

yes, this is what I also know: Salsa on 1, Mambo on 2

I'm not offended at all Squirrel. I just responded to the above and you later responded differently. That's all.

JaneMas?I think you are misreading squirrel's point slightly.* For her, the discussion is pointless, so she's not saying don't have it but, rather, asking what the point of it is for those who think it worth debating?just her opinion as yours is t o you.
Maybe because at first she engages and then calls it pointless after my 2nd comment. It's fine :)

BorikenSalsero said: "It is all a terminology thing, we all call it what is commonly used where each one of us is from, which makes none of us wrong, it just makes it different..."

And that is what happens when you are referring to the dance but use the generic musical term and vice versa. But the roots are getting lost. Something very important to anything pertaining to art or music.

:)
________
How to roll a blunt (http://howtorollablunt.net/)

borikenSalsero

07-13-2004, 02:44 PM

And that is what happens when you are referring to the dance but use the generic musical term and vice versa. But the roots are getting lost. Something very important to anything pertaining to art or music.
:)

The roots :cry: , not only the roots seem to have been forgotten, but also the lifestyle that followed them. Today, it seems that salsa is seen only dance...

No talk of roots, "dress codes", religious beliefs, knowledge, all seems to have been swallowed by the sea. Now, salsa is mentioned and seemingly all think of dance.

Where is the old lady dressed all in white? Where is the knowledge of what the "dialect" within salsa means? Where is the burning desire to be more than a dancer within Mambo? Where is the guaguanco, columbia, yambu feel of the dance? Where oh where I ask! where? :cry:

ThatHaitianSwede

07-21-2004, 08:49 PM

The roots :cry: , not only the roots seem to have been forgotten, but also the lifestyle that followed them. Today, it seems that salsa is seen only dance...

No talk of roots, "dress codes", religious beliefs, knowledge, all seems to have been swallowed by the sea. Now, salsa is mentioned and seemingly all think of dance.

Where is the old lady dressed all in white? Where is the knowledge of what the "dialect" within salsa means? Where is the burning desire to be more than a dancer within Mambo? Where is the guaguanco, columbia, yambu feel of the dance? Where oh where I ask! where? :cry:

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

But it's obviously within your soul boriken, I think it's finding it's way into mine :P I love all that, cuz a lot of people "jus don' understand." The spirituality and connectedeness (sp? :lol: ) of it all.

RugKutta

08-09-2004, 02:15 PM

budding,

U and I are pretty much in the same boat on this one. I've been taking classes for about a year and a half now, and the majority of that time I didn't even know that there were different styles of salsa (LA/on1, NY/on2, cuban, etc). I'm pretty good on1 and have just recently started to learn on2. I need more practice on2 though. I can only dance On2 for so long before I end up back On1 just out of habit. One other problem I have is that each style is based on dancing on different beats of the music. I cannot, to save my life, find the beat! I mean, I know when I'm on beat and when I'm not; what I really mean is that I can't figure out where the one or the two beats are (or any of the other ones for that matter) in the song. It all sounds so technical. I've tried reading about it online but It's so confusing reading it in words. I think I'll just have to pull someone aside at the club one night and have them show me.

peachexploration

08-09-2004, 05:02 PM

RugKutta, Check here :arrow: Explanation of Clave Patterns (http://salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=3)

It has sound explanations. Hope that helps a little. :D

salseroito

08-09-2004, 11:55 PM

I started this thread a while back and have since tried on2. Just like Rugkutta, I always end up on1 out of habit. A comment about Rugkutta's problem of finding the 1st or 2nd beat. If you've been dancing on1 for awhile, I'm almost sure that you know when that first beat starts and when that 8th beat ends. If you don;t know this then I'm almost sure you've been off beat all this time. However, from what you wrote you don't seem to be. To all those experienced dancers, am I right in saying that all dancers (on1 or on2) are hearing the same beat and that they all start on that same first beat and the basic difference is what they do with the second step they take? An on1 dancer's second step is always on a different direction than the first step (probably called on1 because change in direction is after the first step) and an on2 dancers second step is always in the same direction (probably called on2 because change in direction is after the 2nd step). Or am I totally missing the point (beat).

peachexploration

08-10-2004, 02:23 PM

MacMoto

08-16-2004, 04:48 AM

Had an interesting experience. I went to my usual class, but that day we had a guest teacher, who did a "cha cha cha on 2" workshop. He got us to practise the basic cha cha step on 2 while listening to the cha-cha-cha beat on 4&5/8&1 and also the 2 and the 6, where you break. He demonstrated how stepping this way hit these characteristic beats, and when we were all comfortable with cha cha on 2, he played a salsa song and told us to continue our cha cha on 2 basic, saying that the rhythm pattern was just the same, only the speed was different. Then he told us to miss out the cha-cha-cha triple step. Voila -- we were doing mambo on2!

This certainly made me listen to the salsa rhythm pattern differently from the way my on1 ear is used to -- made me more aware of the tumbao of the conga on 4/8. I don't know if this actually works on the dancefloor (since I haven't done any real dancing on 2), but I thought it was an interesting approach, especially since I'm quite comfortable dancing cha cha cha on 2.

borikenSalsero

08-16-2004, 08:18 AM

that was beautiful... I did that to a few people once when they were having trouble finding the 2... A cha cha, then bang a salsita telling them to skip the cha cha. :D I thought it worked rather well.

SDsalsaguy

08-17-2004, 09:15 PM

Its funny, but I have trouble doing cha cha on 1 or salsa on 2... guess that makes me a timing mut! :shock: :oops:

borikenSalsero

08-19-2004, 10:44 AM

Last night I saw the fliest shirt, it read, on1, on2, whatever! :lol:

danceguy

08-19-2004, 11:38 AM

*-*

squirrel

08-23-2004, 07:53 AM

SG, when you learn dancing in 1 and 1/2, please share it with me! I've always craved to learn it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

danceguy

08-23-2004, 02:32 PM

*-*

squirrel

08-24-2004, 04:13 AM

sure, it's easy !!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

peachexploration

11-14-2004, 09:58 AM

vin

12-03-2004, 02:27 PM

Hi RugKutta, I have also been learning on2, I am learning ETon2 which I suspect you are learning as well. I think it was Borikensalsero who put it best when he said when dancing ETon2 you are still stepping on the one but your break is now on the 2. The pause is still on the 4 as when dancing on1. To tell the truth it seems like a bit of a cheat to me.
When dancing power2(i think) the pause is on the one and you are stepping and breakin on2 as was said before.

On a related note I have started to notice alot of people lately stepping in the middle on1, pausing(or kicking) on2 and then breaking on3 and having a pause on the 4 again. Is anyone familiar with this?

squirrel

12-08-2004, 05:20 AM

Yes, Vin... I am very familiar with that... :) People here do it... some just start directly on 3 (break on3)... looks sort of similar to breaking on1... :)

I can do it myself...

CapricornDancer

12-14-2004, 03:38 PM

Hi BuddingSalsero. Yes, I hear all eight counts but the way I remember On1/On2 (follower) is which beat I am taking my primary step on. For example: When I'm dancing On2, my pause should be on the 1 beat and primary step should be on the 2 beat stepping back.

This allows me to raise an intersting point: the On2 with which I am familiar - don't ask me which one of the different types it is; I'm not sure yet . . . - the dance steps are on 1, 2 and 3, with the pause on 4 (not on 1). As the order of steps in the basic is different to On1, the pause comes between the second step (on the 3rd beat of a bar), and the third step (on 1), which is when the breaking foot returns to the centre position.
In terms of the breaking foot, then, the pattern is step (break/2) - place step (3) - pause/slow move (4) - step (return/1). The whole point of On2, as I understood it, was to give people - mainly followers - more time to spin, style, etc, as there is an extra beat between the 2nd and 3rd steps/movements of the basic.

To further confuse the issue, it is possible to dance On1 with a foot pattern like On2: break on 1, step in place on 2, then slowly return the breaking foot to start position on 4. This is the way I was taught, in fact, which meant I never understood what was all the fuss about On2 . . . Oh yeah, and you can do it On3 too, of course . . . :twisted:

CD

peachexploration

12-14-2004, 04:13 PM

CD, I really couldn't tell you if it was Power2, ET2, Palladium, etc. All I know is that I listed for that loud 2 on the conga and go from there. I have seen New Yorkers hit that one and start movement on the four. Any other On2 dancers here. Boriken is in NY and can explain it much better than I can. :lol:

vin

12-14-2004, 07:30 PM

CapricornDancer, the first step sequence you listed sounds like ETon2 to me. The second way you mentioned I don't know but I will think about it.

CapricornDancer

12-14-2004, 07:42 PM

CapricornDancer, the first step sequence you listed sounds like ETon2 to me. The second way you mentioned I don't know but I will think about it.

I guess you reminded me: I saw Eddie Torres dance at the Paris Congress, and was as well-received there as he was smooth. Made satin look like sandpaper. Yep, that would be my goal, On1 or On2 :D

CD

salsachinita

12-15-2004, 12:43 AM

From what I gathered off your description, CD, it (the first one) sounds like ET on2. the second one sounds like Power2/Palladium, which I'm starting to get familiar with (from watching our friend Petite A from France, whom you've had a dance with at Fed Square).

There's still no sign of ET2 here......I'm hoping to see some in Sydney Congress.

vin

12-15-2004, 08:56 AM

To further confuse the issue, it is possible to dance On1 with a foot pattern like On2: break on 1, step in place on 2, then slowly return the breaking foot to start position on 4. This is the way I was taught, in fact, which meant I never understood what was all the fuss about On2 . . . Oh yeah, and you can do it On3 too, of course . . . :twisted:
CD

Hi CD this sounds like on1 now that I think about it. I have seen it alot, I actually don't mesh extremely well with this style as I like to bring my left foot back on3 and pause on4.

sal-0

01-11-2005, 12:14 PM

As far as I'm concerned, I listen to the music and I let that determin wether I dance on 1 or 2. Dancing on 3 and 4 is just dancing your partners part. Just listen to the music and have a good time.

Everyone should be a good salsa and mambo dancer that way when you go out you can do anything and can dance with anyone. As a dancer you have to interpret the music. It kills me when I see people dancing salsa to a mambo, or mambo to a salsa, by doing that they are not paying respect to the music and the musicians who kill themselves to have a good mambo or salsa beat.

peachexploration

01-11-2005, 01:38 PM

Hi Sal-0! Welcome to Salsa Forums. :) Yes, particularly for the traveling dancer, it is better to learn as many styles as you can.

salseroito

06-14-2005, 09:11 PM

So how are you doing so far? Stop by and let us know. :wink:

Well, its been over a year since i started dancing salsa and i am having a ball. I never went ahead with on2 because I was told i had to stop dancing on1 for awhile before i can really learn on2. I was having too much fun to do that. Besides, i think majority of the dancers all over he word dance on1 so for now it isn't really a priority.

Perhaps if i get bored with on1 then I'll try it. Right now though I am so much addicted to salsa and i'm having such a great time. After a year of dancing, i was on the dance floor one evening and everything seemed to just fall in place. All of a sudden i felt that i finally learned how to dance, and it was and is such a wonderful feeling. :D :D :D

peachexploration

06-14-2005, 09:26 PM

Fantastic!!!!! I'm so happy hear and know you're doing so well, BuddingSalsero. :banana: :cheers: :bouncy:

hopelessly_addicted

06-14-2005, 10:55 PM

:cheers: That's GREAT, buddingsalsero! :D

A comment you made intrigued me... So.. do you guys all think that to really learn on2, you gotta stop dancing on1 altogether and vice versa?

MacMoto

06-15-2005, 03:31 AM

A comment you made intrigued me... So.. do you guys all think that to really learn on2, you gotta stop dancing on1 altogether and vice versa?
I've also heard this advice before, and I know a few people who have followed/are following it. Personally, I'm learning on2 at the moment but I'm not following the advice...

The advantage of stopping on1 I suppose is it eliminates the confusion associated with the timing switch. It helps you develop the "on2 instinct"; it helps you "feel the 2".

My reason for not following the "on2 immersion" advice:

- There simply aren't enough on2 leaders in my scene. If I go "strictly on2", I'll end up having to sit out most songs most nights, which I don't think would help my dancing.

- I've always liked to dance cha cha on2 even before I started dancing salsa/mambo on2, so the on2 timing is not completely alien to be.

- Not all salsa songs are meant to be danced on2! -- at least that's how *I* feel. Some songs are much better suited to the on1 timing, and some are fine either on1 or on2 (here I'm including cuban style salsa (casino) in the on1 group, as well as cross-body on1).

When dancing socially, I only seek on2 leaders when a song with a strong mambo feel (which says on2 to me) comes on, and the music helps me stay on the beat. I may start doing more social on2 dancing once I get better at it and there are more on2 leaders, but at the moment I'm happy to dance all non-mambo salsa songs on1.

Of course the fact that I'm a follower may also be playing a part here. The confusion of switching between the two timings may be greater for leaders, and you may benefit more from going strictly on2.

hopelessly_addicted

06-15-2005, 04:24 AM

Thanks MacMoto for the reply! :) I love reading your posts cause they're detailed and informative (+ very sensible most of the times! 8) )

My reason for not dancing on2 only is similar to yours in that there isn't enough on2 leads here! My reason for start learning on2 now rather than later is that I don't want the transition to be too hard..

Among the 2 on2 leads that I know, they've just started learning on2 few months ago. They seem to be doing ok switching between on1 and on2 though...

I've always liked to dance cha cha on2 even before I started dancing salsa/mambo on2, so the on2 timing is not completely alien to be

Can someone please tell me if my understanding of dancing cha cha on2 is correct?
:arrow: Dancing cha cha on2: 1 2 3 cha cha 1 2 3 cha cha
Is that right? :?:

and dancing cha cha on1: 1 2 cha cha cha 1 2 cha cha cha

I heard from someone that melbourne is the only place that dances cha cha on1.. so do you guys dance cha cha on1 or on2?

MacMoto

06-15-2005, 06:30 AM

Thanks MacMoto for the reply! :) I love reading your posts cause they're detailed and informative (+ very sensible most of the times! 8) )
:oops: Thanks

Can someone please tell me if my understanding of dancing cha cha on2 is correct?
:arrow: Dancing cha cha on2: 1 2 3 cha cha 1 2 3 cha cha
Is that right? :?:
Yes -- though I tend to think of the count more as "(1) 2 3 cha-cha-cha 2 3 cha-cha-cha 2 3 cha-cha-cha..."

I heard from someone that melbourne is the only place that dances cha cha on1..
Not true! When I look around during a cha cha, about 8 out of 10 couples are dancing it on1 (1 2 cha-cha-cha). Even though I prefer cha cha on2, I do dance it on1 if the leader is more comfortable with that timing.

peachexploration

06-15-2005, 07:05 AM

...- There simply aren't enough on2 leaders in my scene. If I go "strictly on2", I'll end up having to sit out most songs most nights, which I don't think would help my dancing.... This is very true. The general idea is to find out what is the majority dance style in your area and go with that just for the reason Mac stated above. I've done Casino/Casino Rueda and LA styles and found that I really liked On2. Although, there were many reasons outside dance why I stopped taking those classes, I immersed myself in the music and found that the older style On2 music was again, more to my liking. Luckily, we got someone here in my area that teaches it strictly and the amount of people to dance with is growing rapidly.

When I first started On2, see :arrow: I Will Defeat Operation Setback (http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=444), the on1 bug came back to haunt me even after over a one year hiatus! So, now I have totally detached from on1 just so I can get my bearings. Not sure how long it will take before I'm really comfortable but progression is positive at this point. :D

Jones, Nikka

10-16-2005, 10:06 PM

As far as I'm concerned, I listen to the music and I let that determin wether I dance on 1 or 2. Dancing on 3 and 4 is just dancing your partners part. Just listen to the music and have a good time.

...As a dancer you have to interpret the music. It kills me when I see people dancing salsa to a mambo, or mambo to a salsa, by doing that they are not paying respect to the music and the musicians who kill themselves to have a good mambo or salsa beat.

Excuse my ignorance but what is exactly the difference between a mambo and salsa music?
Is it the order of the clave beats?

I can tell the differnce between the mambo and the salsa as dances but I figured all this differnt elements that make up the salsa could be danced to pretty much any afro-caribbean rhythm.

NYguero

10-17-2005, 12:25 AM

It kills me when I see people dancing salsa to a mambo, or mambo to a salsa.

there seems to be a little confusion here of what's salsa and what's mambo. Dancewise, mambo = salsa (NY style)

Can someone please tell me if my understanding of dancing cha cha on2 is correct?
:arrow: Dancing cha cha on2: 1 2 3 cha cha 1 2 3 cha cha
Is that right? :?:

It doesn't matter if it's chachacha on 2 or on 1, these refer to where in the music you break (change direction). Now, you can't be putting the cha cha cha on different beats of the music. The timinf for cha cha cha is:
8 and 1 (the "cha cha cha") 2, 3 4 and 5 (cha cha cha), 6, 7
________

NYguero

10-17-2005, 12:25 AM

memphis salsero

10-17-2005, 01:05 AM

I actually learned cha cha different. We cha cha on 3 and 7 in memphis, yes everyone does it this way. I dont know why its done this way here and I hate that I've learned to dance it that way. Has anyone else ever been taught to cha cha that way?

peachexploration

10-17-2005, 07:38 AM

... The timing for cha cha cha is:
8 and 1 (the "cha cha cha") 2, 3 4 and 5 (cha cha cha), 6, 7This is the way I learned without taking a class. Which is funny because I had problems learning ET2 but could do Cha Cha Cha with no problem. :?

borikenSalsero

10-17-2005, 09:02 AM

there seems to be a little confusion here of what's salsa and what's mambo. Dancewise, mambo = salsa (NY style)

This is a very true statement that because of misunderstanding mostly has created different beliefs.

For the sake of regional differences Salsa is thought of as danced on1, while Mambo is thought of as danced on2. Please do know that regardless of anything any elite dancer tells you, Mambo and Salsa (the dance) are the very same thing. One that confusion and a lack of knowledge equal to the same. Kind of like a person totality infatuated calls the feeling love.

10-17-2005, 09:09 AM

Yes -- though I tend to think of the count more as "(1) 2 3 cha-cha-cha 2 3 cha-cha-cha 2 3 cha-cha-cha..."
I have been teached to dance cha cha cha this way too. :) (By a ballroom instructor)

salcero2005

10-17-2005, 04:02 PM

Dance how you want ... we got east coast swing and west coast swing ... we can have On2 and On1 as well. We have 2 types of Tango. People have their preferences, but there is room for different styles. I prefer On2, but I share the dancefloor with On1 dancers. We can all get along.

Jones, Nikka

10-19-2005, 12:38 AM

Since this is the On1/On2 thread...

Does anyone know why Power2 is called so?
I am referring to the Mambo pattern that both starts and breaks on the 2nd beat of the musical phrase.
I had never heard of it by that name until recently so, being naturally curious...

MacMoto

10-19-2005, 08:53 AM

My understanding is that the term "Power 2" was coined by Razz m'Tazz Dance Company, and it's basically a rebranding of the old "Palladium 2" to give it a bit of impact, I think. Power 2 has the same step sequence as on1 but every thing moved back by a beat, so the nature of the dance style is quite similar to on1 -- snappy and sharp, with a strong accent on the break beat, quite different from the flowing feel of ET2. This is presumably why the Razz m'Tazz people felt "Power 2" was a good name.

This is what their website says about Power 2:

RazzMTazz teaches and dances on Power 2, the original New York salsa style that emerged in the Palladium era. The Mambo Aces pioneered it, and legends like Freddie Rios and George Vascones followed suit. They all swore by the power it gave their movement.

Why do we like Power 2? Because starting on the forward and back breaks allows you to PUSH OFF. It gives you MOVEMENT and MOMENTUM, allowing you to TRAVEL. We break on the balls of our feet, pushing off without bringing our heels down -- this gives us the SPEED and POWER we need to perform our DYNAMIC TURN PATTERNS. And the extra speed allows more time to add STYLE -- a shake, a hip roll, a snap-out, a hook-flick...all the flair that sets us apart from the crowd.

Any other advantages? Power 2 allows us to start on "two." Why is that important? Well, because the action of starting and breaking on "2" accentuates that beat of the music that much more. When you start on "1" to break on "2," the "1" step becomes accented and takes power away from the "2" step. But it's the "2" step, the break, that should be the most expressive.

http://www.razzmtazz.com/power2.html

Jones, Nikka

10-21-2005, 12:52 AM

Josh

11-03-2005, 02:25 PM

Yes -- though I tend to think of the count more as "(1) 2 3 cha-cha-cha 2 3 cha-cha-cha 2 3 cha-cha-cha..."

That was my inclination when I first danced cha cha as well, since, after all, the music says "cha cha cha" (well, not in quite the same way, but you get my drift :wink:). However, counting it like the above gives the impression that the third "cha" is a quick step like the first two. In fact, it is a slow.

So, on 2, it's "slow (1), slow (2), slow (3), quick-quick (4 &), slow (5), slow (6), slow (7), quick-quick (8 &)"

So "1, 2, 3, cha-cha" keeps the numbers slow and the "cha"s quick. Does that make sense?

peachexploration

11-03-2005, 03:54 PM

clemente

11-03-2005, 04:40 PM

Hi Josh! Happy to have you here! :banana: :D

For me, On2 Cha Cha would be the following:
... The timing for cha cha cha is:
8 and 1(the "cha cha cha") 2, 3 4 and 5(cha cha cha), 6, 7

So, the 2,3 & the 6,7 beats would be slow.

Like a lot of you, I prefer to count cha cha cha with the 2-3-cha-cha-cha-2-3 system rather than quick quick slow, but if you want to describe beats as quick and slow, the 2,3, and 1 steps are all considered slow. The only quick steps are on the 4 and the 4.5 (the first two "chas" in the pattern).

The logic is the same as with the son-based dances like mambo, where you count it "quick-quick-slow", and the 'speed' of a step is measured by how many counts it is after the step until the next step (not how quickly the step happens after the previous step). So, in salsa, the quick steps are followed by another step one count later, and the slow steps two counts later. In cha cha cha, the quick steps are followed by half a count, and the slow steps are followed by a full count.

memphis salsero

11-03-2005, 06:28 PM

So I took a cha-cha class from Rogelio Moreno the other day and he taught it on2. I really liked it b/c it keeps me feeling the music and never counting. As soon as I start to count it is just my natural inclination to go forward with the left on 1, so I had to completely forget all that and just try to feel it. I'm almost inspired enough to try to learn salsa on 2. Well see..

Lockstep

11-04-2005, 10:35 AM

just in-between classes, so no time to read all replies, but my recommendation is:

1. Stick with on1 for now. Its very disciplined, and in this lies the strength in the first year or so. It will help you with your leading, general techniques and feeling for the music

2. When you really got the hang of on1, (a year or 2 or so), then maybe switch to on2. The switch takes a while, but you wont have to start from scratch and will exceed your on1 very soon. Meaning, your on1 isnt wasted time, it is very similar to on2 to make everything you learn be useful in one way or another

Conclusion, dont rush into on2. Its more difficult than on1, eventually more beautiful, but better a well-danced on1 than a mediocre-danced on2