How do you dance with absolute beginners or erratic partners

O

Offbeat

Son Montuno
Applies to both leaders and the followers on how do you control the dance with newcomers or clueless dancers.

As a leader how do you keep a follower on time. Do you hold the frame firmly so they follow you better? What moves do you attempt with them? The same question will apply to dancing with an somewhat erratic partners - swinging wildly side to side, taking long step backwards and invading other couple's space, ending the turn in Siberia, etc.

As follower do your arms get yanked (though usually the more advance beginners or intermediate leads are prone to do this), are you waiting for the song to end because the timing is totally off or the leader is doing basics in quick-slow-quick-slow 4 steps.
 
You do simple moves like outside-turn, CBL, inside-turn. To rein someone in during a turn, you can use your free hand to guide her shoulder.

Sometimes a back-spot turn will work with a beginner, and it usually gets a big smile. (I had an instructor who suggested this move because "The ladies really like it.")
 
I did something the other night for an entire song that I've only ever really done maybe now and again ....

I basically back led a beginner through all the turns he was trying to put me through

There were 2 reasons, one he was yanking my arm and two, I thought I'll maybe be able to show him over the whole song that he needs to keep his arm bent when turning me

So basically I used my strength to stop him straightening his arm.
I don't know if he twigged what I was doing but it kept my shoulders in their sockets

As for everything else, when dancing with an erratic dancer, I go into self preservation mode which means I become hyper aware of everyone around me and try to stop me or the guy bumping into someone. And i take teeny steps in case my toes get stepped on :) And I assume I'm going to have to do all my turns myself.

It also depends on how beginner / erratic the person is, if they are a beginner I might help them out and "anticipate" some moves or sometimes I'll be a "good follower" and only follow what they have actually led. If they are nuts I'll not do multiple turns mainly as I know i'll end up careering into someone :)
 
Do it every week in my classes !! -- slowly but surely, is the simple and effective answer .

I actually use the same approach with an " unknown ".

Bulding a comfort zone, is possibly the most critical element, to developing an understanding ( dance wise ) in the beginning stages of a dance .
You would not ( I hope ) drive your car, at nite, thru a country rd at high speed , not knowing what hazards may lie ahead-- so-- apply the same rules to your partner ( if new or unknown )
 
I start most dances with a "reading" phase where I am calibrating to the partner, seeing what she will and won't do and where she is comfy and not comfy. If she's erratic but controllable I will try stuff but guide her physically with my free hand, eg xbody inside turn will end in the partner position so that I can control her. If she's erratic but uncontrollable then I'll simply back off the energy and the repertoire until she's no longer causing a ruckus on the dance floor.
 
I've noticed that beginners usually know better how to turn counter-clockwise than clockwise, and one good move that usually works is being in a closed hold and turning 90° to the right/left alternatively, gripping her on the back with your left/right hand respectively.
 
True in all dances-- particularly , in B / Room---

Reason---the left ( reverse ) turn ,is consistent with progressive motion around a dance floor ( as in the travelling dances ) i/e-- the pre conceived notions we have. are challenged ( mentally ) by something that does not immediately fit our concept of " turning " against the progresssive action.

If you pay attention to the "old " westerns, where the dancing is usually V. Waltz-- the turns are all counter clockwise-- hence the name " Natural " turn ( to the right ) .
 
incase of eratic unrythmic dance partner .. i tone it down as much as possible .. then try to keep myself from prozac abuse..
 
Remember that you are dancing with her in the same way that you would kiss her or even make love. You gently walk her through some steps. Don't lead anything over her level and always keep in mind that the dance is not about showing off but about enjoying the dance with your partner.

Focus all your attention on her, dance the basic, lead a few cross body leads maybe a turn or two. Hold her close. Work on enjoying the dance with her.

Dancers like this are erratic when you try and lead things outside of her level. Alot of times the woman and I might have differing opinions about her level and she might want more challenging moves but until she shows me that she can master the basics I will stay away from anything more complicated.
 
Agree with the above – most of the time I like to give the follower what they want, but with out of control followers I’ve learnt to reign in my leads, keeping it tight and simple. They may want big moves, but if they can’t follow them in a reasonably controlled way I’m reluctant to lead them.

That said if floor space permits and the follower in question is clearly enjoying things I might indulge them – though often you make a rod for your back, as they expect the same when the dance floor is crowded.

I’m getting over my perfect rhythm straight-jacket somewhat and if a follower has no idea what to do with her feet I ‘try’ to find her groove and run with it – partner hold, stiff arms and using my body to lead also help make it feel like a partner dance rather than two people doing their own thing.
 
I think that some of vin's advice can also be applied to salsa in general. But otherwise I agree with others about starting slow and trying to find about the level of the lady to dance in her 'comfort zone'.

Especially in the case of beginners, I tend to compliment them when I lead them through some move, that might either be a small variation of a known move or a new one that I guess they should be able to follow, but that I think they would be able to follow and did so well.
 
last night i became an expert in dance self-defence!!

A girl asked me if i would dance with her friend, i said ok..thinking probably beginner - shy, that's cool

oh nooooooooooo couldn't dance an iota and all he wanted was a grope - i became very slippery and developed multiple block arm tactics to stop him coming within 2 feet of me!

He was also quite drunk which made it even more interesting :)


sorry, slightly off topic :)
 
Sad indeed. What did you tell the girl afterward?

irishgirl said:
last night i became an expert in dance self-defence!!

A girl asked me if i would dance with her friend, i said ok..thinking probably beginner - shy, that's cool

oh nooooooooooo couldn't dance an iota and all he wanted was a grope - i became very slippery and developed multiple block arm tactics to stop him coming within 2 feet of me!

He was also quite drunk which made it even more interesting :)


sorry, slightly off topic :)
Click to expand...
 
irishgirl said:
nothing

I decided they all looked quite scary and not to go there....
Click to expand...

It's already very suspicious if a guy relies on someone else to ask a girl for a dance...
 
chr said:
irishgirl said:
nothing

I decided they all looked quite scary and not to go there....
Click to expand...

It's already very suspicious if a guy relies on someone else to ask a girl for a dance...
Click to expand...

i did wonder...

ah sure, tis no bother really, it wouldn't be an irishgirl night out if i didn't have one scary dance!!
 
chr said:
irishgirl said:
nothing

I decided they all looked quite scary and not to go there....
Click to expand...

It's already very suspicious if a guy relies on someone else to ask a girl for a dance...
Click to expand...

Yes it is, but it can also be used for humour. Actually, thanks for the idea. Next time I will ask a friends to ask a salsera I know if she wants to dance with me. They will most probably burst into laughter because, why would someone do that? :lol:
 
Great thread!

Agree with brilliant replies:
- go slow at first and build!!!

Dance at or just above your comfort zone (i.e the synergy of you both at the time)

This will grow over time hopefully!
 
With beginners no traditional salsa basic - "just move your feet in time to the music" is my mantra. ;)

With erratic dancers - control on a tight leash unless it is a spacious floor. :twisted:
 
OK that is fine for beginners but what about a lady who has been going to a cross body class for about 12 months at least, who when you get her up for a dance goes side to side wandering off line willy nilly suddenly spinning herself back and forth in a ceroc style., and when you try to lead the simplest of moves tries to turn the most difficult and opposite way you are quite clearly leading . infact it would be crazy to turn the direction she does . and footwork . random steps per beat in any direction. .
so do you say anything in an encourageing but in a constructive manner , fear of upseting her . say nothing . and see her not get a dance , just leave it to her teacher to spot it and teach her to do it correctly.
I quite like this lady , as a person , and she is enthusiastic , . I would just like to say I am not a teacher and it has nothing really to do with me , and don't want to diss her teachers. dancing with her is not easy . in the nicest possable way.
 
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