The Woes of the Instructor...

[peachexploration]

I've seen so many countless stories of how there's always that "one or two" in class, who in general, make it difficult for every other aspiring salser@. For the instructors out there, how easy or difficult is it to deal with these people? I'm not speaking of the norms like rhythm and timing but the ones who are just plain rude, obnoxious and clearly don't have a love for dance, just a love to make others feel awful. :cry:

I know for the most part, instructors really don't have the time to be a babysitter or counsel these people but I think that having bad people like this affects your business eventually. Instructors, what do you think? Are there rules of conduct that you have the students agree to? Are you aware of these kinds of happenings? Does this happen often at your studio? Just curious, please share. :)

[Wicked Salsero]

cant u just kick him out for not being a team player ?

what about having something like an in class couples perfomance and when is done you really embarass him becouse (s)he didnt any good ? :twisted:

[peachexploration]

WS :lol:

Anyone else?

[simona]

I totally can relate on this topic. I teach a few salsa classes in my community, and there's always one or two "high-maintanance" students in the class.

The way that my partner and I deal with these folks is that right from the beginning we set the tone for the class. We let folks know that this is supposed to be fun, and that mistakes are okay. Plus, we teach in a night club and there's a bar so readily available alcohol also helps.

We constantly remind people that Salsa is a social dance so no need to get uptight or stressed out. This alleviates most of the issues, but we do get one or two that just need a little bit more oversight.

For these folks, we socialize with them during the breaks, and get them to loosen up and know us a little better. That way they think of us as friends instead of "instructors." Usually, the pain-in-the-$$%% folks are those who are a bit insecure and need extra reassurance. Or, it's the boyfriends/husbands and sometimes wives that get dragged to class by their significant other and don't want anything to do with dancing. Getting to know them a little and making them feel like they are welcome helps a lot.

And if that doesn't work, well - there is the bar and my partner and I have a few drink after class to alleviate our stress. ;)

[Claire_Brummell]

You are always going to get some people that are 'hard work' - but this can be for a variety of reasons:

1) They think they know better
2) They say you're going too fast
3) They say that they just 'don't get it'
4) They refuse to listen
5) They are just of that nature

To name only a few.

Whenever I'm teaching it needs to be made clear that it is fun, but that I won't take any cr@p - because they can end up ruining a class for others if you let them take over. The way that I deal with the above are as follows:

1) Explain to them WHY you are telling them to do it that way - there is a reason you're doing it that way -as long as you know it and can explain it, even if they won't come round the class will know that actually you are the one who knows what they're talking about. Also ask them why they think they should do it their way and you can then explain to them and the rest of the class why it should be done the way that you say - as long as you can back it up with reasoning, stay calm and be polite you'll be fine. If they continue to argue, then ask them to come and discuss it with you after and you'll explain how that move works so that you can move on for the rest of the class

2) Ask the others in the class - if they agree, slow down - but if the concensus is that it's ok then explain that it is an Improvers / Intermediates etc class and that you need to keep going at the average rate of the class and offer them to move into the lower class and to find you later to learn that move individually.

3) See answer 2

4) Take a moment with them individually to bring home what you're saying and explain to them and show them what you're asking them to do. If it persists ask them to to find you after the class to go over it so as not to hold up the rest.

5) Stay calm and polite and make jokes to make it fun - don't let one person ruin the night for everyone else.

With everything - always explain your reasons, be polite and make it fun - you'll earn the respect of those around you - and you'll enjoy it yourself!

:D

[lucretia]

I've seen so many countless stories of how there's always that "one or two" in class, who in general, make it difficult for every other aspiring salser@. For the instructors out there, how easy or difficult is it to deal with these people? I'm not speaking of the norms like rhythm and timing but the ones who are just plain rude, obnoxious and clearly don't have a love for dance, just a love to make others feel awful. :cry:

I know for the most part, instructors really don't have the time to be a babysitter or counsel these people but I think that having bad people like this affects your business eventually. Instructors, what do you think? Are there rules of conduct that you have the students agree to? Are you aware of these kinds of happenings? Does this happen often at your studio? Just curious, please share. :)

Since I am no teacher I cannot help in this matter. But I have the same problem with one of the teachers. So perhaps you can help me.

This teacher regard himself as God. Anyone who doesn't meet his standard is like dirt to him. He is mean, scornful and unjust. He is bad for the business of the danceschool. I feel sick just by watching him. Lucky he isn't teaching every time.

Every girl I know have the same problem with him. Except for the girls that are better than him.

Should I tell the management - he is best friend with the owner of the school. or should I perhaps change danceschool.

/luc

[peachexploration]

Lucretia, if I were the instructor, I would definitely want to know. Do these students return to the studio after he's a Jerk to them? :? As a student, I would even pulled the another student aside who is the subject of the abuse and ask them if they're okay. Also, maybe hint that they should say something to management. :(

[lucretia]

He is a "co-instructor" (advanced ex-student who helps the instructor). He never abuse anyone in public. I mean not in front of everyone - just the people close by can hear him.

Last night I was the victim. He accused me for doing something I hadn't a clue about. It all happened when I was dancing with my partner close to him and his partner. Perhaps it was my partner who did this. Perhaps it was me. Since he obviously had his back toward us he cannot be sure. He said it happened three times :shock: And I did not get any warning in advance...the third time he just :twisted:

I decided not to take any sh#t from him so I pulled him aside after the class and told him what I felt. He did not take it well....

I guess it mostly is an attitude problem. He cannot give any critics without making people feel bad. I've heard that he has been mean to young male salsa students. I've also been told he has this style when socializing as well. But people he admire are threated well.

Well I will probably tell the management. I've spooken with so many other girls now so I know it is not a personal problem for me. But it might be so for him.

/luc

[peachexploration]

......I guess it mostly is an attitude problem. He cannot give any critics without making people feel bad. I've heard that he has been mean to young male salsa students. I've also been told he has this style when socializing as well. But people he admire are threated well......
/luc

Yeah, this guy's ego needs to be checked. I hate when people are that way. What a jerk he is. :evil:

[Claire_Brummell]

Ah, the salsa ego - what a monstrous thing...

To be honest I agree totally that a lot of teachers think that they are gods - part of the reason for this is that people treat them as such and it adds to their ego...

Personally I think that everyone at every level is always improving - no matter how good - and they should always remember this. I would never boast my talents on the dance floor (even if I thought I was the best dancer in the world) I would far rather say I can 'hold my own' (a phrase you'll hear me say a lot) and let people judge for themselves - you talk yourself up there's only one way for people's opinions to go.....down.
The salsa ego is an evil destructive force - I cannot stand ego, arrogance or rudeness - in any walk of life and especially not in salsa.

If one of your options is to find somewhere else to dance then my suggestion would be try to do something about it first - if it doesn't work you can still leave, but you might be able to change things so you can stay - you're not losing anything. My advice would be to:

1) Find out (on the QT) if there are a lot of other people who feel the same
2) Get together as a group and discuss the problem
3) Either as a group or you on behalf of the group (make sure they are happy for you to speak for them) go and see the guy who runs it (he may listen more if it's more than one of you and explain that if things don't change you'll be looking for somewhere else to dance just because you're not enjoying it there as a result) - MAKE SURE THE GUY YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS NOT AROUND WHEN YOU DO THIS!!!! (As it may degenerate into an arguement.
4) Explain that you tried to talk to him first but that it didn't go well so you now feel that you have to speak to him even though you didn't want to.

As long as you say calm, non-accusatory, factual and reasonable then he may listen. If not you can leave anyway!

Either way we need to do what we can to stop things like this affecting our salsa communities it should be fun first and foremost and if it isn't we need to do something to change that!

Good Luck - let us know how you get on :D

[JazzHands]

Oh I can relate to this totally, had a very similar experience myself.

A while back I was in a class and when the partner change came I ended up dancing with the assistant instructor.

Don’t know what the hell her problem was but 10 seconds into it she basically bawled me out - telling me (well basically yelling at me in front of the class) that I hadn't done this and I hadn’t done that and my lead was bad and ya-de-ya-de-ya-de.

Let me say a couple of things here.

Firstly, I know that I'm a reasonably good leader. By that I mean I often get unsolicited compliments telling me that my lead is clear and smooth.

Secondly, I'd been partnered with this so-called assistant instructor before, and I can honestly say that leading her was like trying to lead one of those supermarket shopping trolleys that has a wheel jammed. I've danced with girls who after their first lesson have a better concept of following that she did.

Thirdly, this assistant instructor took a warm-down once, and as we got going I just couldn’t get myself on time. Couldn’t understand why, as my timing is usually pretty good. Then I realised that I was on time and she was actually off - and therefore leading the whole class off time!

Anyway, following the bawling out incident I decided I'd had enough. Didn’t ever go back to that class again. I told a friend of mine that also attended that class and he vowed never to go again (he'd had some problems with her too). Also mentioned it to a few people at work that had just started at that particular club and I know that they gave it a wide berth after that.

So, the chief instructor (who I didn’t have a problem with) probably lost the revenue of about 6 or 7 regular students all due to his stupid assistant having a bad day and deciding to take it out on the first person that she came across.

The moral here, at the end of the day vote with your feet (excuse the salsa-pun). If you go to a class and get treated like dirt, don’t go back. There are plenty of good salsa teachers and classes around these days - it’s hardly a niche thing.

[Claire_Brummell]

Absolutely - I think that as soon as someone raises to "Instructor" or "Assistant Instructor" level, their arrogance level can also get clicked up several notches.

The most important things that an instructor must remember are:

1) They are providing a service
2) They should care whether their students become good dancers or not
3) They should make sure that their students have fun
4) It is their responsibility to give their students what they need and are paying for.
5) They are not there to feed their own ego

It can be rare to find a teacher like this out there - but they do exist!! If you have problems with them for whatever reason I agree 100% then you shouldn't go and should find somewhere else - however if it were my students, I would want them to come and tell me so that I could correct it - if there was any of this going on on our holidays or at the venues where I teach I would want to know about it so that I could nip it in the bud or replace the teacher in question - in my mind this is not what salsa is about and I want my students to enjoy the experience.

:D

[peachexploration]

Any other instructors out there that would like to chime in on this one?

[irMaxSALSA]

Rowdy students I don't tolerate. I just simply throw them out of class.

People that don't practice I don't tolerate either. If you can't perform the Right Turn by the 3rd Class don't bother coming back. Find an easier instructor.

I simply put a hault to teaching salsa group classes because I was constantly running around like a headless chicken for little money.

Private lessons is a more profitable method of teaching salsa to ANYBODY. If they are rowdy? So what! It's a private lesson! They are learning at their own pace. If it takes them almost 3 months to learn a simple turn pattern. Oh well!

I can write a HUGE list of crap that I experienced in the past but what it really comes to is this: IT'S EITHER YOU HAVE IT OR YOU DON'T.

I've noticed in my years of teaching private lessons that experienced club, jazz, hip-hop dancers and musicians understand the on2 language and it's musical relationships. Older salsa dancers, spanish people who were taught by relatives, people who have two left feet, or non-spanish people who want to learn to "SALL-SA", or starry eyed old people who have seen "Dancing with the Stars", understand the on1 language.

[Jones, Nikka]

...People that don't practice I don't tolerate either. If you can't perform the Right Turn by the 3rd Class don't bother coming back. Find an easier instructor.

If someone can not "perform the right turn by a 3rd lesson, It does not mean that they do not practice. It means that they are practicing the wrong move. Or that they have not been properly taught. A right turn is such an easy move, a student should come out of class already able to do it, no extra practice necessary. I would say find a better instructor, or better yet, an instructor who speaks your language.

...I simply put a hault to teaching salsa group classes because I was constantly running around like a headless chicken for little money.
Private lessons is a more profitable method of teaching salsa to ANYBODY. If they are rowdy? So what! It's a private lesson! They are learning at their own pace. If it takes them almost 3 months to learn a simple turn pattern. Oh well!

Wow! :shock:

I've noticed in my years of teaching private lessons that experienced club, jazz, hip-hop dancers and musicians understand the on2 language and it's musical relationships. Older salsa dancers, spanish people who were taught by relatives, people who have two left feet, or non-spanish people who want to learn to "SALL-SA", or starry eyed old people who have seen "Dancing with the Stars", understand the on1 language.

And what is On1 and On2 language?

Do you realize how condescending your little rant sounds like?

I can write a HUGE list of crap that I experienced in the past but what it really comes to is this: IT'S EITHER YOU HAVE IT OR YOU DON'T.

True. Either you are a teacher or you are not!

[Swannie]

If it takes them almost 3 months to learn a simple turn pattern. Oh well!

Wow! 3 months?! How many classes is that? I'd be questioning my teaching techniques if I saw that.... acutally, I write this and I try to think of the least co-ordinated person I have had to teach, and I can understand that...

irMax, I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound arrogant, but it does a bit. I understand that you have standards and expectations and I respect that. I like how you are comfortable sharing them with us. Thanks.

[Jambo]

I've noticed in my years of teaching private lessons that experienced club, jazz, hip-hop dancers and musicians understand the on2 language and it's musical relationships. Older salsa dancers, spanish people who were taught by relatives, people who have two left feet, or non-spanish people who want to learn to "SALL-SA", or starry eyed old people who have seen "Dancing with the Stars", understand the on1 language.

I'm just trying to think which of the latter categories I fit in to, then I will also know just how deeply offended I should be!

[terence]

Have been in this prof. for over fifty yrs, and teach all genres, class and priv.
For those of you just starting in the profession, the key word, is Control . One should always establish their position of authority in all teaching situations , right from the git go. Deal with any problem arising. immediately , in private , with firmness . If, at the end of the lesson, nothing has improved, refund their fee, and politely inform that they are disturbing others in the class. Sometimes best to layout ground rules before the class commences .

[LongHairedLeader]

I've noticed in my years of teaching private lessons that experienced club, jazz, hip-hop dancers and musicians understand the on2 language and it's musical relationships. Older salsa dancers, spanish people who were taught by relatives, people who have two left feet, or non-spanish people who want to learn to "SALL-SA", or starry eyed old people who have seen "Dancing with the Stars", understand the on1 language.

irMaxSALSA, I've always read your posts with respect until now. You are of course perfectly entitled to your own opinion, but this rant has a condescending 'On2 snob' air that I find very unattractive and unappealing.

As Jambo said


I'm just trying to think which of the latter categories I fit in to, then I will also know just how deeply offended I should be!

[Terremoto]

Have been in this prof. for over fifty yrs, and teach all genres, class and priv.
For those of you just starting in the profession, the key word, is Control . One should always establish their position of authority in all teaching situations , right from the git go. Deal with any problem arising. immediately , in private , with firmness . If, at the end of the lesson, nothing has improved, refund their fee, and politely inform that they are disturbing others in the class. Sometimes best to layout ground rules before the class commences .

Terence - welcome to salsa forums! Its great to have someone with your experience here!!!

[combo]

irMax -
While I pretty much agree with the substance of what you wrote regarding "getting on2 vs. on1," your tone is far from ideal for a teacher.
When students show up for a class, they've frequently worked a full day, and may not be at their most alert. The most important qualities for a teacher are patience and humility.

[terence]

One more observation that I did not include, have had the dubious pleasure of teaching two world class, and one of which was a very well known musician, ( a drummer , no less ) plus sundry other musical types ( one quite recently-- a music teacher )

Have to tell ya, none after finding a beat in relation to steps ,could keep consistently with the same rythm sequence ---- have run into this same problem numerous times ( and Ive been teaching for nearly 60 yrs )

So, all i can say, you have been very lucky, if all you mentioned have been able to adapt dance steps , to music , without any problems, rhythmically speaking .

[AndrewD]

Though I’m sure Max can defend himself – I don’t think what he is saying is meant as an insult.

What he’s saying is that he takes his profession seriously and as an instructor he finds it difficult to teach people who don’t share his passion for the dance/music. For example I’ve been to a number of venues where people take lessons after work (and have done so for a year or more) but they never dance socially. I guess they are ticking some kind of personal achievement box – but this attitude confuses me somewhat.
Similarly, you can dance with some people, to the same piece of music, three weeks in a row and they won’t realise that it has been the same song; again this confuses me – what are they listening to?

If your not fussed about the music, or if you are learning salsa to look ‘cool’ then why try and learn the additional aspects of dancing that on2 demands. On1 is definitely more accessible for people who want a bit of a laugh after work, as breaking on the 1st beat has a certain logic about it. Breaking on2 is no more difficult physically than on1 (if you can find one you can find the other) – however understanding why breaking on2 works the way it does, requires a reasonably sophisticated musical ear with the ability to isolate the percussion from the melody.

However, if you take either form seriously then both are equally capable of interpreting the music and I would argue that both require a similar level of dedication to master. I dance on1 BTW; I will learn on2, not because it’s better, but so I can dance with more people.

[sweavo]

Similarly, you can dance with some people, to the same piece of music, three weeks in a row and they won’t realise that it has been the same song; again this confuses me – what are they listening to?


Pick a style of music you hate... might be trance, folk, heavy metal... chances are part of the reason you hate it is that it "all sounds the same". Whereas even within metal there is thrash/death/speed metal, and doubtless dozens of subdivisions... within trance you have goa, hard, ambient, etc. The point I'm making here is that when you know a musical style, you speak its language and can get more subtle and complex feelings from it than if you don't speak its language.

Actually language is another good metaphor. I bet there are plenty of americans who couldn't tell swedish from norwegian or danish just by listening. And those who can - can they tell whether the person is from the north, south, east, west of their country?

So that's the place that these people are at. When played salsa music they try to identify the features:

(1) it's got a big ol' mess of drums I can't really understand
(2) there's some stabbing brass
(3) there's a guy singing in spanish

... and file it under "salsa". Their ear is not developed enough to tell whether they are listening to guaguanco, mambo, charanga... whether the vocal delivery sounds like '70s new york or '90s colombia, etc...

Completely agree with your point - how could you possibly make a meaningful argument to this person that they should learn on 2?

[Swannie]

So that's the place that these people are at. When played salsa music they try to identify the features:

(1) it's got a big ol' mess of drums I can't really understand
(2) there's some stabbing brass
(3) there's a guy singing in spanish

... and file it under "salsa". Their ear is not developed enough to tell whether they are listening to guaguanco, mambo, charanga... whether the vocal delivery sounds like '70s new york or '90s colombia, etc...

Uhhh... that's like... me :)

WARNING: Going off topic:

I can recognise a merengue from a bachata from a cha cha from a salsa, which I think is a pretty good start.

But how on earth would I go about learning what is what?

With something like rock music I can almost categorise music, but that is because I have grown up listening to it for 10+ years, I have read a few magazines, but probably my best source of knowledge is the radio.

There aren't many latin radio shows *in English*, or even podcasts (that I have found), to learn from. A sad fact is most English reviews of salsa/latin music online are lacking in musical knowledge, so I can't really go and educate myself that way. I looked in the local library for books on latin music - nothing. I looked in Waterstones - nothing. I looked in Borders - nothing. I've looked in music shops - nothing. Maybe I would have more luck in London, but not here in Bath (or Reading).

Any suggestions?

[terence]

Thanks Steve , for re- iterating one of my prior posts , responding to a similar topic.

I know, as a teacher , I am very grateful that someone has made the effort to attend ANYTHING I teach .

Teaching, is about developement. The joy of it all, is seeing people progress to an acceptable level , in their own comfort zone. Sure--I wish they all could , and would be , perpetual learners , honing their craft to higher levels. Now lets talk reality. The attrition rate in continuing higher class levels, is huge. The majority are interested in getting on the floor and dancing-- as soon as possible-- right or wrong !!
I do however empathise, with the frustrations that embody many levels of teaching . It goes with the territory

[Pierre]

Unfortunately, being a great dancer does not automatically make you a great teacher. Managing students, class structure, content, delivery etc are all skills which take time to perfect. I've been teaching IT for over 10 years and the skills I learned there have helped my salsa teaching immensly.

Breaking your students in to smaller groups can also help to keep them interested and, therefore, less troublesome. Every week, we have 4 teachers teaching 5 levels across 7 classes over 2 hours (confused? see our website (http://www.salsaaddict.com)!). By keeping students in focussed groups, they are less likely to become bored or distracted.

Also, regarding music. Our club is in South London where most people listen to R&B so we use R&B influenced tracks in our classes (eg Alex Wilson's R&B Latino album). The English lyrics and familiar rhythm/structure help (albeit subconsciously) to keep them interested.

I've taught all sorts of people over the past few years and, as long as you can explain your methods, remain polite and generate an attitude of mutual respect then even the most troublesome students come round eventually!

[AndrewD]

Similarly, you can dance with some people, to the same piece of music, three weeks in a row and they won’t realise that it has been the same song; again this confuses me – what are they listening to?


Pick a style of music you hate... might be trance, folk, heavy metal... chances are part of the reason you hate it is that it "all sounds the same".

The genre analogy is reasonable, but I wouldn’t spend my time or money learning to dance to music I didn’t like, let alone hated. But I guess people go to salsa classes for different reasons; I’m pretty certain that a ‘gentleman’ at one of my classes only goes so he can get his mitts on young ladies (without them saying no), he never social dances. Others just want to tick a box so they can impress people and will move on to the next fad that arrives (Martial arts? Knitting? Mountain biking? Ice skating?).

I imagine private instruction must be far more satisfying for some teachers than group lessons because typically the student will be much more focussed, wearing appropriate shoes, probably not drunk and won’t expect to learn ‘cool’ moves before they’ve even learnt the basic step. I’m pretty sure this is what Max is getting at, rather than insulting on1 dancers?


I can recognise a merengue from a bachata from a cha cha from a salsa, which I think is a pretty good start.

But how on earth would I go about learning what is what?

With something like rock music I can almost categorise music, but that is because I have grown up listening to it for 10+ years, I have read a few magazines, but probably my best source of knowledge is the radio.

Any suggestions?

I guess you just start absorbing snippets of info about the music and noticing the differences between salsa’s various styles. What makes that a mambo? Why do guaguanco’s sound different to other stuff? What instruments stand out to make dancing a cha cha on2 more appropriate? You start saying things to your self like ‘that sounds Cuban rather than NY Puerto Rican’ – admittedly, at the moment I can’t tell you what makes them sound different, I know they just do and am able to spot the differences most of the time. Even though I’ve only exposed the tip of the ice-burg, I reckon I’m the exception rather than the norm – most people in group lessons couldn’t give a monkey’s about the difference between the 3:2 and 2:3 clave.

As Terrence says…

The majority are interested in getting on the floor and dancing-- as soon as possible-- right or wrong!!

[sweavo]

I can recognise a merengue from a bachata from a cha cha from a salsa, which I think is a pretty good start.

But how on earth would I go about learning what is what?


I can sympathise. I've been dancing for 5+ years and been 'into' the music for about 2 years now, and I still only have a very patchy understanding of it all. The best stuff I've found has been resources aimed at percussionists and other musicians.

Rebeca Mauleon's Salsa Guidebook contains a potted history and the basic instrumental parts for different styles
amazon.com/Salsa-Guidebook-Rebeca-Mauleon/dp/0961470194
though it's a little cuban biased and pushes the songo style somewhat.

If you play an instrument, try 101 montunos by the same, and many conga or timbale books seem to start with a potted history too (try Poncho Sanchez' Conga Cookbook)... it seems the originators of this stuff are keen to tell their story but not enough people are listening yet. Tito Puente's "Drumming with the mambo king" contains a huge diagram of what styles inherited from which, but it's not worth purchasing unless you actually want to learn to play timbales.

After that, the internet is a good source but you have to take your time - lots of bias and hearsay present - just let it all soak in and filter out the bullshit later. Search for terms like mambo, guaguanco, timba, abakua, bata, campana, son, danzon, charanga...

[terence]

You certainly have a wrong impression about priv. lessons. How I wish what you THINK it is , in relation to what many times it really is,were always true . Have had some students over the yrs, that came to every lesson, partially loaded ( and that includes ladies ! )

Remembering , that alcholism is a disease, one has to plod along as best as poss. --- And dont even get me started on the shoe thing !!

Most teachers have " horror " stories they can relate of a similar or like , nature .

[AndrewD]

You certainly have a wrong impression about priv. lessons. How I wish what you THINK it is , in relation to what many times it really is,were always true . Have had some students over the yrs, that came to every lesson, partially loaded ( and that includes ladies ! )

Remembering , that alcholism is a disease, one has to plod along as best as poss. --- And dont even get me started on the shoe thing !!

Most teachers have " horror " stories they can relate of a similar or like , nature .

Oops :)

I promise that I would be the model student!!

[sweavo]

Pick a style of music you hate... might be trance, folk, heavy metal... chances are part of the reason you hate it is that it "all sounds the same".

The genre analogy is reasonable, but I wouldn’t spend my time or money learning to dance to music I didn’t like, let alone hated.


Heh, you don't have to actually hate a style to get the "it all sounds the same" feeling...

When I started salsa, I was rhythmically pretty good, having been a kit drummer and having danced other stuff when younger... but I still would sometime dance double-time to a slow track... and I regarded the music as a 'necessary evil'. I used to take what I learned (on1) in the salsa class and apply it when dancing to funk or soul at Muggle clubs, to music that motivated me.

I daresay if there was a slightly saucy, street-credible partner dance that worked to dire straits or chris rea, there would be a great market for it...

[terence]

Some how-- I just new you would be ! ;)

[SnowDancer]

For example I've been to a number of venues where people take lessons after work (and have done so for a year or more) but they never dance socially. I guess they are ticking some kind of personal achievement box – but this attitude confuses me somewhat.


In the 5-6 months my wife and I have been taking classes, I've noticed that this is the rule. It's very rare to see someone from one of our classes at a club. It's not that surprising, as the club scene can be intimidating, and a huge step from the lessons. Even in intermediate classes, the music played is far slower than anything you'll hear at a club, and the women back-lead because they've been repeating the same patterns over and over.

[terence]

Andrew-- it may come to somewhat of a shock to you- but- many , many people take lessons in all the different genres , and NEVER go dancing .

Their pleasure, is derived from accomplishment, and dancing on the lesson , rather than public performance--- strange ?-- yes but not uncommon, in singles as well as couples .It is their way of relaxing for one or two hrs per week ( some do it thru class work )

[MacMoto]

Yup that's true -- and I started out as one of those people. I decided to take salsa classes in January 4 years ago as a new year resolution to get more exercise and lose weight. Dancing seemed more enjoyable than jogging or gym. I wanted to do flamenco but no classes were available locally, so I took salsa instead. I had no idea what salsa was like then -- music or dance. I didn't even know it was a partner dance. So I started, but I didn't go to the classes very regularly, and after the class I always left promptly as I needed to get up early. So social dancing was not a part of my early salsa experience. I didn't know there were such things as salsa clubs -- my classes were not held at a salsa club. I only started dancing socially at the end of that year, initially at local monthly socials then further afield -- and it was only then that I got hooked.

[noobster]

Ditto MacMoto.

I took my first salsa lesson almost five years ago. At the time I had no idea that there existed an entire community of salseros who held salsa parties in clubs and studios almost every night. I went through an entire 8-week series of beginner lessons; and at the end I had some basic moves and a little more appreciation for the music, but I still had no concept of what social salsa could be. I still thought I needed a partner; and since I didn't have one handy, I mostly dropped the whole idea (aside from occasional outings with friends who also knew the basic step but not much more) until a little over a year ago.

I am so hooked now though. I am absolutely kicking myself for dropping it the first time around. :x

[AndrewD]

Still somewhat surprised, but I consider myself re-educated :)

[Swannie]

Trying to guide this back on topic... I was lucky enough to do my first salsa class on a quiet night at the club where I take lessons.

The intermediate/advanced instructor, and part of the night DJ introduced himself to me whilst I was watching the few people dance. He got me to ask one of the few beginners to dance, and he asked her friend... suddenly it was just me, the instructor and two ladies on the dance floor. Well, thanks to that I've only gone one week without asking *someone* to dance after class. It was annoying as a beginner when all the everyone I recognised ran away after classes, even when I'd managed to "book in" a couple of beginners to practice at the end. (It *is* intimidating to walk into the main dance area and see all of the intermediate II/advanced students dancing!)

It must be a little frustrating for instructors to see their students not actually *dancing*. What I do in classes is learn, and what I do on the dance floor is dance (and learn, but in unstructured (all be it directed) way).

But "on the flip side" of that, you must have students that rush to the dance floor. They start flinging themselves and thier partners around, smashing into people etc?

[Jambo]

Time to own up on this thread...........I've been banned from a salsa class!! :shock:

I got interested in salsa about 6 years ago when classes started in the function room of my local pub. I knew absolutely nothing about the music or the dance before I started and it took me well over 2 years to realise the teacher didn't either ;). Salsa classes were just a bit of fun with my friends and a bit of exercise once a week.

The teacher was a qualified (UKA) latin and ballroom teacher but as it turned out she didn't know her ar*e from her elbow when it came to salsa. She kept her students in a little cocoon, never promoted any salsa events, clubs or weekenders and was happy for us all to remain oblivious to the fact that there was a salsa 'scene' out there. The nearest we ever got to a salsa night out was the class Christmas dos (which were just for the class) and the nights out when we went to take our exams - yes, we even took exams in how to dance carp salsa!!! :lol:

It was only when I went to a new class that started about 5 miles away that I saw the light. Straight away the teacher started pulling me up for 'bad habits' (which I'd been taught by the first teacher) and after the class he produced a handful of flyers for various events I'd never even heard of. A few weeks later I went to one of these events and was blown away :shock: I stood at the side of the dancefloor and saw for the first time what salsa was all about. That was it - I was hooked!!

I know it sounds stupid but I still carried on going to the other class, even though my eyes had been opened regarding salsa, dancing had done wonders for my leg which had been badly injured some years before, the improvement was so great that I felt extremely grateful which resulted in a misguided sense of loyalty.

At one point I was doing 4 different classes a week, the more I learned the more the first teacher seemed to disapprove. The straw that broke the camels back was when I started to arrange salsa social nights in the area (no classes, just social dancing) and the first teacher said she was very pi**ed off that she had not been consulted. The nights were not a threat to her classes, on the contrary - they would give her students somewhere to actually go and dance but of course that would mean mixing with dancers who actually could dance and blowing the teacher's cover ;).

So the teacher banned hubby and me from the class (she actually waited until I wasn't there one night and told my hubby - very wise ;)) she gave the reason above and also the fact that she thought we were 'poaching' students for the other class, we NEVER did that but if someone asked us where else we went for lessons (and it was obvious we were learning elsewhere) we would tell them, I don't think that's wrong - my other teacher would encourage us to go to more than one class.

So we were banned :shock: it's taken me a while to get over it, I mean where else am I going to learn how to dance a little cheesy 'routine' to Ricky Martin? :lol:

I'm just a salsa rebel!! :twisted:

[DeeplyDippy]

I've also been banned :D

As some of you know, I write a weekly Newsletter and send it to around 1,100 people in my area.

I took a class and the teacher said in a loud voice "I don't want to teach this, I'd rather be teaching On2". I was a tad annoyed as I'd just paid £5 and wrote about it in the Newsletter. I didn't name the teacher or the venue and I left it several weeks.

But people had heard him and I wasn't the only person annoyed. He banned me from his clubs and threatened legal action. I dared him :D The truth being my defence against Defamation.

As he'd banned me, I dropped all mention of his clubs and parties from the Newsletter. He went out of business and I'm still writing ...

(OK, he went out of business because he's an ar$ehole)

[salsera_alemana]

Jambo,

I knew absolutely nothing about the music or the dance before I started and it took me well over 2 years to realise the teacher didn't either ;).



ROFL! Thanks for the laugh! This was so funny!
Although it sounds very funny I feel for you that she set you up for 2 years. Fortunately you changed teachers and got into the real thing.

What in the world is carp salsa? Never heard about it. One of her inventions?

Don't be upset anymore about being banned from her class. It seems like it wasn't worth it anyway and it was certainly not for free since it was a a class. Why pay for learning the wrong thing? No hay mal que por bien no venga (don't know the equivalent in English). It means that something good comes out of everything negative/bad/misfortune. So it was certainly good for something. And regard it as her loss if she is that ignorant and insecure.

Congratulations to introducing a salsa social in your area!

[Jambo]

What in the world is carp salsa? Never heard about it. One of her inventions?

Sort of ;) but it's a little anagram.

[Jambo]

Don't be upset anymore about being banned from her class. It seems like it wasn't worth it anyway and it was certainly not for free since it was a a class. Why pay for learning the wrong thing? No hay mal que por bien no venga (don't know the equivalent in English). It means that something good comes out of everything negative/bad/misfortune. So it was certainly good for something. And regard it as her loss if she is that ignorant and insecure.

Congratulations to introducing a salsa social in your area!

Thank you :D

[Jambo]

I've also been banned :D

As some of you know, I write a weekly Newsletter and send it to around 1,100 people in my area.

I took a class and the teacher said in a loud voice "I don't want to teach this, I'd rather be teaching On2". I was a tad annoyed as I'd just paid £5 and wrote about it in the Newsletter. I didn't name the teacher or the venue and I left it several weeks.

But people had heard him and I wasn't the only person annoyed. He banned me from his clubs and threatened legal action. I dared him :D The truth being my defence against Defamation.

As he'd banned me, I dropped all mention of his clubs and parties from the Newsletter. He went out of business and I'm still writing ...

(OK, he went out of business because he's an ar$ehole)

:lol: :lol: :lol: Good on ya Dippy!!!

[irMaxSALSA]

I take a break from Salsa Forums and look what happens! LOL

I was telling it like it is for lack of a better sentence. As you already know I'm not articulate. :)

The rant was shaped by opposing forces that ripped my "salsa forums etiquette" to shreds. I'll try to avoid the Simon Cowell (American Idol) point of view. :)

I tried to massage the paragraph with happy thoughts of the good ol' days of teaching salsa but it was hacked by the reality of the business itself. I agree that it's unattractive and unappealing but that's only when I turn off the business radar.

I got into the business of teaching salsa and I had to consolidate as well as become more strict and cold with class policy in order to see a result in the bank. I put a hault to being a softy instructor and as a result I saw positive growth in the students as well.

I agree with AndrewD that I only teach students that share the same passion. They better arrive to class on time after working a 10 hour day. They better learn the right turn by the third class - Trust me, we are teaching it to the strictest of methods. And they better practice at least once before the next session.

[peachexploration]

Too bad I'm not in Jersey. I would love to take a few classes with you guys, Irmax. :)

[irMaxSALSA]

:banana: Cool.

Wait until internet technology improves.

We'll be VIRTUALLY in the same class soon.

:D

[Salsamakossa]

Very interesting. Yup that's true -- and I started out as one of those people. I decided to take salsa classes in January 4 years ago as a new year resolution to get more exercise and lose weight. Dancing seemed more enjoyable than jogging or gym. I wanted to do flamenco but no classes were available locally, so I took salsa instead. I had no idea what salsa was like then -- music or dance. I didn't even know it was a partner dance. So I started, but I didn't go to the classes very regularly, and after the class I always left promptly as I needed to get up early. So social dancing was not a part of my early salsa experience. I didn't know there were such things as salsa clubs -- my classes were not held at a salsa club. I only started dancing socially at the end of that year, initially at local monthly socials then further afield -- and it was only then that I got hooked.

[Salsamakossa]

I personally did not go to clubs for 5 months, when I started learning but that was because I wanted to be at a reasonable level, before venturing into that "den"...lol.

For example I've been to a number of venues where people take lessons after work (and have done so for a year or more) but they never dance socially. I guess they are ticking some kind of personal achievement box – but this attitude confuses me somewhat.


In the 5-6 months my wife and I have been taking classes, I've noticed that this is the rule. It's very rare to see someone from one of our classes at a club. It's not that surprising, as the club scene can be intimidating, and a huge step from the lessons. Even in intermediate classes, the music played is far slower than anything you'll hear at a club, and the women back-lead because they've been repeating the same patterns over and over.

[terence]

This topic has been discussed in great detail on another site.

Bottomline-- not everyone takes any type of formal dance training, purely for the practical application of same . Many do it to relieve stress, some for exercise, boredom, pick a reason, there,s plenty .Many of my students, in the genres I teach, do not go to social events .

This is not as unusual as you may think .

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

So we were banned :shock: it's taken me a while to get over it, I mean where else am I going to learn how to dance a little cheesy 'routine' to Ricky Martin? :lol:



Hey Jambo - I'm into this thread kind of late, but if you come over to North Yorks I'll happilyteach you a cheesy routine to Ricky Martin - just so you can feel at home! :lol:

[Jambo]

So we were banned :shock: it's taken me a while to get over it, I mean where else am I going to learn how to dance a little cheesy 'routine' to Ricky Martin? :lol:



Hey Jambo - I'm into this thread kind of late, but if you come over to North Yorks I'll happilyteach you a cheesy routine to Ricky Martin - just so you can feel at home! :lol:

Awww, thanks! :lol: :lol: :lol: