Introducing Fluidity in Your Dance Movement.....

[peachexploration]

How do you eliminate the appearance of "stiffness" in Salsa? How do we eliminate looking more like robots rather than having the fluid movement that allows us to look as if you're "flowing" as opposed to just "stepping"?
How do you embrace the wave of motion that moves and connects you to your partner?

[squirrel]

Respecting the technique of stepping would be a start... body isolation moves would be next... enjoying the music and "letting go" are helpful as well... ;)

[peachexploration]

So, what if you're talking to a total beginner? What are some of the things, i.e. techniques, tools you would use to enhance that smoothness and fluidity?

[squirrel]

It's difficult to make total beginners look fluid... especially those who have hag no previous dance experience... :(

They have a lot of difficulty in keeping the beat and not mixing the feet already! :shock: :lol:

[salsadame]

i'd recommend beginners to video themselves and get themselves to pin-point wat they dislike seein themselves do.

tried that a month back and i realised that i can correct myself more easily after watchin some horrifyin early recordings! <laughs> especially when i *thought* that i was movin my arms.. but in fact it was in some circular motion that it looked really ridiculous. at the same time then.. i also realised that once i corrected my circular motion arm moves.. i noticed that my arms are stiff *after* doin a turn. so i made it a point to relax my arms and go with the motion after completing turns.

well somethings you just dun realise till u video yourself. sometimes your partner can't evaluate effectively becuz of the close proximity. when u are just so put off by wat you see.. you will want to correct it immediately (before you develope the nasty habit as a beginner) and then video yourself again to see if it looks okay. this i reckon.. is a way out for some.

as for squirrel's note on beginners havin difficulty in keepin time. then i'd suggest goin for music classes.. and spend some time understandin music on a whole. i have a background in a marchin band and am also a percussionist.. so that eliminated the keepin the beat. but that did not mean that i progressed well into fluidity right from the start. (can say that i'm much better now tho. *after* much self criticism from my own video recordings.) <grin>

[peachexploration]

i'd recommend beginners to video themselves and get themselves to pin-point wat they dislike seein themselves do.

Talk about an eye opener. :shock: I was doing a video clip of myself last night and immediately erased it. :lol: :lol: :lol: There is this body roll I do that I thought looked good but to my surprised while I viewed it, it looked like I carried around a ton of bricks and had extreme back pain. Hilarious! Needless to say, I immediatly changed it. ;) So, definitely Ting, recording a video or even dancing in the mirror definitely helps you monitor/improve your dance movement. Unfortunately, it can be uncomfortable. Especially, for me. I hate mirrors! (Afraid of the truth maybe :roll: :lol: ) But I think recording yourself is a great tool. :)

[salsadame]

you know.. i have a full length glass reflection in my room.. and i use that as a substitute for a mirror (it works fine. haha.) but the reason i suggested recordin a video is that it is quite impossible to note and check our posture in the midst of doin our turns / multiple turns? hehee. =)

next.. my 2 cents on footwork fluidity. my progress from a total beginner's step step step 'look' into a smoother 'glide' and havin a hip motion look.. is to follow / learn / mimick from a better salsera. i picked mine up from a video.. and have since then recieved positive feedback that i got it lookin nice.

some notes that i seem to read from some tips corners (and do put them into practice) are:
1. to *land* on the ball of your feet then followed by the heel. rememberin to practice turnin on the balls of our feet even if we are not in heels.
2. push off your steps with the ball of your feet as well.
3. try not to lift the feet up too much.
4. keep the knees close together in passing or even cross them slightly in front of one another.
5. remember to point toes slightly outwards. remember it bein referred to a 'pigeon-toed' look if you are spotted with toes pointin inwards! lol.

reckon all these are *very* important points to remember if we want to progress out of the 'step step step' look.. and develope a more fluid overall movement.

[salsachinita]

I used to dislike the idea of viewing myself on video until I actually did it. To my suprise, I looked exactly as I felt 8) (*phew*)..........

To answer the original question, I think it truely comes down to being comfortable with the moves, music, your partner and most importanly, yourself.

Apart from good isolation, which beginner usually won't get a chance to work on (don't force yourself to do it at this stage....there are too many things to worry about!), I think having a smooth weight change in doing the basics really makes a difference.

Also, having good suspension is a huge help. Lift yourself up, stand on the ball of you feet (as 'tall' as possible). Now keeping an upright posture, knees flexed, how low can you go and still be comfortable.....? THIS is the kind of suspension I'm talking about: keep your centre of gravity low while lift yourself up ('off' your feet).

[SMF]

Hello,

It is true that the video helps a lot, you can analyse what you like in your style and what to improve (in my case, so much things :D)

For me the most impostant thing is to practice every time and everywhere on the point to improve (alone in the elevator...). For instance I want to move better my hips and knees, so I try some new moves when I'm alone (it's a bit ridiculous... and a bit obsessive but it works :P )

[peachexploration]

...For me the most impostant thing is to practice every time and everywhere on the point to improve (alone in the elevator...). For instance I want to move better my hips and knees, so I try some new moves when I'm alone (it's a bit ridiculous... and a bit obsessive but it works :P )

You're not alone. Our elevators have great mirrors so it's easy for me to practice there too. Security probably laughs (surveilance cameras) but hey, a Salsera needs to practice where ever she can. :lol:

Is it possible to incorporate some of the technical movement (grace) from ballet in Salsa without totally eliminating the street edge?

[SMF]

You're not alone. Our elevators have great mirrors so it's easy for me to practice there too. Security probably laughs (surveilance cameras) but hey, a Salsera needs to practice where ever she can. :lol:

Is it possible to incorporate some of the technical movement (grace) from ballet in Salsa without totally eliminating the street edge?

Actually, I'm a Salsero, but I need practice too :D

What do you mean with the ballet's moves ? what kind of movements ?

[peachexploration]

...What do you mean with the ballet's moves ? what kind of movements ?

Oh, maybe not so much for the men but for the ladies. Like graceful arm movements better for styling such as hand tosses, etc.. :)

[la celia]

How do you eliminate the appearance of "stiffness" in Salsa? How do we eliminate looking more like robots rather than having the fluid movement that allows us to look as if you're "flowing" as opposed to just "stepping"?

I think that is possible only with a lot of practice. The best school is the dance floor!Isn't it? ;)
The first movements aren't fluid.I know! :D But is normal! With this kind of dance,there are some particular movements.And you can't do it well!
We have to dance,dance and dance!!! Only that!!!!
Another thing is repeat the steps that you learn at lessons.Each time! I do it!At home,alone and without mirror!This is a pity,because is important see your image while you are dancing!!!See how are your movements,if are good or are not!This is another way to get better!

[Miami Rueda dancer]

well, I took lessons and from there on, you just.... catch it lol when I used to dance my partners would tell me move your hips more your so stiff :P but now I look more smooth.... fluid.. try taking small steps and moving your hips alittle :D

[peachexploration]

Any other thoughts on this one?

[lolita]

i think that begginers look STIFF and solidated becuz they dont feel comfrtable doing it , specially if its a group class , every body would be scared ** wut if i look rediculus**
i suggest making them feeling comfrtable and at ease , and by watching someone moving their arms in a fluid wayy , or giving a hip movement while stepping would make them wanna do it , cuz it simply looks good

and one more thing is the music, if they could HEAR the music and FEEl it, they have to be fluid!! thats natural !!!!!

[peachexploration]

Anyone take a seperate Styling Class. I was watching Nancy Ortiz and her styling, body movement is just awesome. Hmmm, I wonder if she has any instructional tapes. :?:

[mexi_gabacho]

I agree with a large number of the suggestions.

For me, the best thing to do is this:

1. Go out dancing!
2. Dance with many partners.
3. Screw up. Smile. Laugh.
4. Repeat steps 1-3.

The only way for your styling to look natural is for it to FEEL natural. And as a beginner, you are doing something that isn't natural to your body. The only way to make it natural, is to do it.

You have to hit the clubs, dance with real partners (who aren't calling out moves), hear the music, move your body, screw up, get over it.... once you are comfortable with the concept of making mistakes and moving on, you will relax.... once you relax, you will begin to actually hear and enjoy the music.... once you hear and enjoy the music.... etc. etc.

There is no better tool than practice. And I see people all the time trying to find the shortcut to hitting the clubs and messing up. But, I really believe that everyone just has to go through that. How long it lasts is up to HOW MUCH you go and how much you practice on your own. Now, there IS such a thing as PROPER practice. And watching videos of yourself can help you make sure that you are practicing properly. BUT, first you have to get over the fear of mistakes. That is when everyone's first dance "break-through" happens.

[peachexploration]

..... 3. Screw up. Smile. Laugh. ....

Love that one! Totally agree. :D

[DeeplyDippy]

3. Screw up. Smile. Laugh.


Great point ! I'm waaay too serious :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Aside from some of the comments already made, I find one good way to help newer dancers smooth ot their dancing is to change up their counting. Rather then #'s or QQS I sugest counting and dancing it as a QQ "ooze" . . . if you do that then you don't actually end up settling wheight on the 3/7 (if dancing on1) and then being "dead in the water" for 4/8 and then having to jerk back into motion on 1/5.

[HF]

Aside from some of the comments already made, I find one good way to help newer dancers smooth ot their dancing is to change up their counting. Rather then #'s or QQS I sugest counting and dancing it as a QQ "ooze" . . . if you do that then you don't actually end up settling wheight on the 3/7 (if dancing on1) and then being "dead in the water" for 4/8 and then having to jerk back into motion on 1/5.

Good one!

[JazzHands]

I think that the principal reason that some newer dancers have with stiffness when dancing, is that they are unable to relax due to a fear of making mistakes and supposedly "looking stupid".

It can be a bit of a vicious circle because we can actually learn things much better when we are relaxed, as opposed to when we are tense and nervous.

We're human beings though, and the way that we learn is by trying things and making mistakes and learning from them.

When I see people dancing and they are nice and relaxed with a good fluid motion (as I hope that I manage to be once in a while) I don't think that this necessarily comes from a high level of proficiency in dance and the knowledge that no mistakes will be made. I think it's more an acceptance that once in a while a move might not come off exactly how it was planned - and understanding that when this happens, the music doesn't suddenly fade and everyone else doesn't just stop dancing to point and laugh (well if that happens then you're going to the wrong clubs).

I know that the epiphany for me was when I had made a bit of a prat of myself a few times, and found that the Earth still carried on revolving and the birds still carried on singing the next day.

Once you accept that you're going to make mistakes here and there, however good a dancer you are, then you relax a lot more and just enjoy it, and hey presto, relaxation = fluidity.

[johnnyBG]

Hi there!

in my opinion... one of the first thing is to have contact with the floor and with the partner. When this is done, you'll be able to shre the impulse that is going from the floor through the feet, body, hands and finishing with the head.
Correct me if I go wrong, but this is one of the techniques used to do Michael's "moonwalker".
but anyway ... everybody must do some stretching exercises for the body, head, hands, etc.
Making the video is very good choice - I feel horrible everytime I look on my recordings.

[Mala]

I think beginners ought to have some patience with themselves. Fluidity comes in time, with practice, comfort, confidence, familiarity with steps and movements etc.

But if anyone's keen on speeding it up--
1. Learn some jazz based isolations--hip, torso, shoulders etc
2. Pick up an instructional DVD and learn the counter body motion that makes salsa look different from any other movement
3. A peculiar tip--dance in your shadow. Not ALWAYS, but somewhat. You'll find you're not distracted by how you look and yet you get clear, clean feedback on the overall look when you move.

[funseeker321]

"There is no better tool than practice. And I see people all the time trying to find the shortcut to hitting the clubs and messing up. But, I really believe that everyone just has to go through that. How long it lasts is up to HOW MUCH you go and how much you practice on your own. Now, there IS such a thing as PROPER practice. And watching videos of yourself can help you make sure that you are practicing properly. BUT, first you have to get over the fear of mistakes. That is when everyone's first dance "break-through" happens"

Mexi Gabacho - what do you mean by proper practice? I'm still trying to figure out the best way to practice...unfortunately I don't have a mirror and I'm moving soon so I can't hang one.....I am just practicing keeping the beat and would love suggestions on better ways to practice...what are some things you focus on when you practice? thanks

[irMaxSALSA]

I only read the first post that started this whole thread and I'm going to respond to that only. Didn't bother reading the other posts; so there is a slight probability that someone within this thread gave the same answer.

But here goes nothing...

The Apple iPOD is the answer...

I have compilated a strong 550 song playlist on my iPOD, that I listen to during the work week. I listen to 200 songs a day. I become sick of it after a while, but then I start to LISTEN closer.

As you become more connected with the music, your steppin' will start getting it's natural salsa feel.

It's matter of hearing a combination of the tempo, rhythm and especially those subtle musical cues, i.e., timbale crash, conga pick-up, bongo pick-up, piano cue, cowbell, etc.

You can practice all you want, but it's all about listening and moving IN THE MUSIC.

PLease don't frag me if I repeated somebody else. :-)

[Mala]

I even listen to salsa in my sleep! Very often. Half my iPod is full of salsa and a lot of listening makes all the difference to the dancing. In my dance class, there seems to be no one else (except the instructor and maybe one other person) who really feels the music.

[salcero2005]

Article or Dance Tips of the week:

IS INJURY PART OF SALSA DANCING?

Injuries can happen, they can happen to anyone of us while dancing or rehearsing any pattern or movement, but they can be prevented. If you are dancing already or you just started to dance Salsa or any other social or competition dance, than this article will give you tips to help you prevent injuries.

HOW CAN WE PREVENT INJURIES?

When dancing stick to what you know and have control of patterns you are executing. Do not try to practice new moves at the night clubs, rather practice them in a designated rehearsal space area in a studio or any other space where you can practice where is not at the night club, especially if the moves or patterns that are difficult to execute. Always take in consideration your partner and others around you. Therefore, always do what you know and what is safe for you, your partner, and everyone else around you. In addition, be aware at all times of the people that are dancing around you, and the ones that are standing around watching.

WHERE IS BEST TO PRACTICE?

The best place to practice or the ideal place to practice would be on a smooth wooden floor. Sticky floors, wet floors or dirty floors are the worst places to practice because they can cause you an injury or hurt your joints and knees.

CAN YOU TAKE ANY SAFETY PRECAUTIONS?

When you decide to practice make sure you take precautions. First you must stretch, warm up and loosen up for at least 15 to 20 minutes before you start doing any type of physical activity like dancing, remember you will be using a lot of muscles and joint movements, than once you are warmed up, if you are doing partner work or foot work, make sure you are wearing proper shoes and attire for dancing to have better stability.

Make sure you go through the pattern or footwork slowly, it is best that you try the pattern or foot work step by step, never on a one shot. Start doing it little by little and slowly, and practice each part over and over until you have it down, once you get comfortable, than you can try it a faster pace. If you are doing any tricks or aerials you can use a mat or cushion, but most important is that you make sure you and your partner know how to get in to the aerial or trick and know how to get out of it. Make sure you study the move, and do not try to jump into it right away. Be aware of the way the hands, head, legs, body movement go before attempting the move, this way you prevent your body from twisting, or breaking something. It is very important that you know your body position, the feet position, and the proper support and balance when executing the move, aerial or trick. Remember to always do it in a safe place like a dance studio. Remember, the more you study the move before trying it, the better.

IS IT BEST TO PRACTICE ON YOUR OWN?

If you are doing partner work or foot work, you and your partner should be fine on your own. If you are doing aerials and tricks it is best that a professional or someone that knows the execution of the aerial or trick be present, and he or she can let you know if you are doing it or executing it the right way.

WHAT IF THERE IS AN INJURY?
If an injury happens, you must have it check right away. Initially after a fall, you might not feel anything, but it does not mean that you are not injured. If there is pain, do not ignore it. You must get yourself to a doctor and get X-rayed. Sometimes symptoms can arise months or years later in consequence of the related injury. Take care of the problem right away.

In addition, once you go see a doctor. A medical doctor will only prescribe you drugs and will treat the symptom and not the cause. The body reacts best to holistic treatment such as acupuncture, physical therapy, chiropractor adjustments and herbs. Heavy drug treatment and surgery should only be taken under last resort and extreme physical conditions.

Remember that the pain comes from stress on the muscles or bones that have been injured, so your first choice should be a natural way to treat the injury. If it is pain only of course, it can be resolved with massage therapy, chiropractor or acupuncture. Physical therapy can do miracles.
If the injury is severe, like braking your arm or leg, than you must go right away and see a doctor.

In Conclusion

Always take care of your body, and apply the tips and precautions that were addressed in this article to your dancing and learning experience. Whether or not you love to dance, any time you do any type of sports and/or physical activity you must be cautious about it.

Article by Tony D

NOTE: If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask me when you come to class or send your question to mrsalsabor@yahoo.com with "Newsletter Article Question" in the subject line

[mexi_gabacho]

Mexi Gabacho - what do you mean by proper practice? I'm still trying to figure out the best way to practice...unfortunately I don't have a mirror and I'm moving soon so I can't hang one.....I am just practicing keeping the beat and would love suggestions on better ways to practice...what are some things you focus on when you practice? thanks

What I look for when I practice these days is really simple things like my posture and how my body looks doing certain movements. Do I looked relaxed? Things like that more than anything. But, there is also watching to make sure that you are dancing on the beat. That takes practice and time, and - like others pointed out - listening to alot of salsa helps you hear and understand the music better.

What I meant when I wrote that post, was that some people just practice, but don't really try to 'feel' things out and make sure that (in partnerwork), the move doesn't just 'work', but it 'feels' comfortable and proper. That's what I mean by practicing properly. Practice them with proper technique and then that proper technique will just become part of your dancing. Just like practicing so that your body is comfortable and relaxed will make you look relaxed when you dance.

[salcero2005]

Its painful, but getting a camera and recording yourself and reviewing it is amazing. You never noticed how much you slouched or how good that crossover looks when you add a shimmy, etc. :D

[salcero2005]

The 10 Commandments

1)Thou Shalt dance with your partner
While I think the music is of outmost importance in Salsa, the ultimate feat of salsa dancing is indeed dancing with your partner! For as the band plays with each other creating the music for us to feel as the creation of many sounds into one band, one music, one song, so must the couple using each other to mesh into one another and “indirectly” become the last instruments of the band. Hence, I must agree with SDsalsaguy and stress partners becoming one (dancing with each other) over any other. After all, partner dancing is what Salsa is in us to be, if missing of either instrument (lead or follow) in the dance, dancing we are not.

2)Thou Salseros & Salseras must dance in rhythm with the music.
Rhythm I stress second for to dance salsa we must dance to the rhythm, if rhythm we are dancing not, then impossible will commandment #3 be. Rhythm here I mean it as not numbers but rather the use of commandment #1 to feel a rhythm followed by the couple within the music that causes the creation of commandment #3. Without #1, there is no #2, and without #2 there is no dance, hence, no #3.

3)Thou Salsero must lead their Salsera properly & make her feel like she is the best dancer in the world while they are dancing
The lady, as the representation of all desire in a music that seeks to elevate two people into the gates of heaven, must become the world. For if the leader seeks to elevate the dance to pure ecstasy the queen being enthroned must become, for there can be no king in a queen-less Kingdome… and feeling is the only way to create a queen from a princes that feels not ready.

4)Thou Shalt be kind to beginners, for verily were thou once a beginner thyself
The sing of a successful kingdom with a fruitful future is the nurturing of its community! The seamless incorporation of all members from king to peasant to feel as if no part is better than one another, a community where the peasant is as important to the success of the kingdom as the king, knights, and clergy—a utopian society where the whole will always be less without any of its parts, not the sign of a new whole. A community that embraces the new as if he or she were the old!

5) Thou Salseros & Salseras in their local Salsa communities must dance with people beyond their cliques & inner circle of friends. Salsa is a dance of conversation and Thou Salseros & Salseras communicate to every one they dance with.
The interaction between upper-middle-lower classes in a kingdom in search of a future must at all times be present, for the casting of its members yields the beginnings of prejudices possibly causing misunderstanding and ultimately resulting in a civil disarray and war. Difference must be stressed as the uniqueness we all accept as the creation and what keeps this kingdom fertile.

6) Thou Shalt honor the physical boundaries of thy partner at all times and treat them with respect.
A kingdom with no regard to thy neighbor can only lead to attitudes that eventually care not for commandment #2, hence the beginning of destruction and all social order as established by the commandments! For we must always remember first respect to thy self, is the respect to thy neighbor! For they shall always want to be treated like thou shalt want thy parents to be treated.

7) Thou Shalt Practice Floorcraft and not step on thy neighbor's toes
The when, why, and how of all members of the kingdom must be of outmost importance in the creation of movement, for the destruction of little toes can result in kingdom not able to join the beats of percussion as its members are unable to search a fulfillment… Floor-craft creates the infrastructure that will forever guide its riders.

8- Thou Shalt proclaim the glories of Salsa to thy friends and get them into a one-hour lesson at a club.
A mean to spread the word of this utopian kingdom is to let others experience what here has been created. By bringing thy friends to this world they shall see utopia in present manifestation, ultimately denying not what they see and desiring to be part of this very world of which only their experience of shall be proclamation enough to join. For the members of this kingdom shall not seek with force to display a truth that only needs experiencing!

9) Thou DF Salseros must dance with Thy DF Salseras during our lifetimes.
A kingdom where members do not seek to experience each other is kingdom not at all, but mockery of one. Must we seek to share our very reality with each other

10) Thou Salseros & Salseras must hear their clave at all times
While understanding that the Clave isn’t audible at all times, we must strive to hear it, feel it, for the very creation of the dance we desire is built upon the very roots of the clave. Salsa would be not with out clave, therefore clave must we become. Time is of no factor, but rather the search for one, take as long as it may need, for the longing is for becoming not how fast we get there...

[salcero2005]

10 Tips to Improve your Salsa

1. You're your own worst critic... Watch yourself in a mirror or videotape yourself; and see what you like or don't like about your salsa dancing and change it...

2. Whether you're just starting out or been dancing for a while, sign up for a class or take a workshop to learn some new moves or to help improve your technique...

3. Want to add a little more spice to your dance style? Analyze what you like about a dancer's particular style and see if you can start emulating some of their movements in front of the mirror at home. Need more help? Take a styling class, a private with an instructor whose style you enjoy watching, and/or purchase a styling videotape.

4. You're lousy at dancing on time to the music? Take a music workshop class, a private with an instructor OR ask your friends to help you "listen" to the music.

5. Take a class in a dancestyle you know nothing about, such as Afro-Cuban, hip hop, jazz...

6. Hate shines? Usually it may be because you may be too lazy to learn, practice and memorize them. Make a game plan to try and learn one new shine a month and use it while dancing on the dance floor... or take a cardio-salsa class with a salsa instructor at a gym (which is usually made up of shine patterns).

7. Find someone who loves to dance as much as you do and become practice partners to learn new moves...

8. Can't find a partner, who needs one... learn new moves from a videotape or class and set aside one night a week to practice at home in front of a mirror...

9. Bored of just social dancing in the clubs? Why not take your dancing to the next level by trying out for a dance group or participating in a dance contest?

10. Do you want to be a good leader or follower to the point where you don't have to ask for dance, but everyone's asking you? Here's a snapshot on what it takes to reach the ultimate salsa goal...

Leader: The ladies know every dance with you is so much fun -- they can get their salsa fix from you in one or two dances. As a leader, your attention is 100% on your partner and the enjoyment of dancing that song together. You've mastered the lead so well that it doesn't matter what level of skill they're at (beginner, intermediate, advanced) -- they know exactly where you want them to be and what moves you are doing without a tug of war; and/or doing crazy moves which forces them to bump into and/or be stepped on by other dancers on a crowded dance floor. Your skill as a dancer is at such a level that you don't even need a partner for someone to appreciate how you can move on the dance floor (style-wise). You never refuse a dance without good reason and if you promise to dance with them later, you remember your promise.

Follower: The leader knows that he'll have 100% of your attention during the whole dance and you'll be able to follow whatever move he can give you at a moment's notice. You don't try to anticipate or lead yourself and even if you both make mistakes, you can laugh, smile and/or apologize for the mistake (not give him dirty looks). You can execute his every move seamlessly and can add a little spice to his dancing enjoyment by adding your own personality (from ladies styling) into the dance. You don't refuse and judge the other dancer just by his looks or whether you think he can dance, then go up to him later and ask for a dance when you realize he really does know how to dance.

by Rose Lau (aka Rose Knows...)
January 2003
www.toSalsa.com

[SDsalsaguy]

thanks for posting the 10 Commandments here salcero2005, but please do give credit where credit is due. the original posting of these was over on Dance Forums (see here: DF's Commandments of Salsa -- Our Dance (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4964)) and, if you saw them somewhere else that *didn't* give credit to DF, please let us know so that we can contact them regarding their illegal copyright violation. Thanks.

[salcero2005]

No problem. I wasn't trying to take credit. Just trying to add some information to the site. Don't worry, it won't ever happen again.

[PielCanela]

i'd recommend beginners to video themselves and get themselves to pin-point wat they dislike seein themselves do.

Talk about an eye opener. :shock: I was doing a video clip of myself last night and immediately erased it. :lol: :lol: :lol: There is this body roll I do that I thought looked good but to my surprised while I viewed it, it looked like I carried around a ton of bricks and had extreme back pain. Hilarious! Needless to say, I immediatly changed it. ;) So, definitely Ting, recording a video or even dancing in the mirror definitely helps you monitor/improve your dance movement. Unfortunately, it can be uncomfortable. Especially, for me. I hate mirrors! (Afraid of the truth maybe :roll: :lol: ) But I think recording yourself is a great tool. :)

I did this last night, my bodyrolls make me look like some type of dinosaur raising after a meal

[peachexploration]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I know the feeling PielCanela. :lol: :lol: :lol: It's still very hard to even watch myself in the mirror in class. I wish I could get rid of whatever that is that makes me not want to look at myself. It gets really annoying especially since that is one of the ways you improve is by looking at yourself and figuring out what you're doing wrong or "right" in most cases. :?

[Mala]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I know the feeling PielCanela. :lol: :lol: :lol: It's still very hard to even watch myself in the mirror in class. I wish I could get rid of whatever that is that makes me not want to look at myself. It gets really annoying especially since that is one of the ways you improve is by looking at yourself and figuring out what you're doing wrong or "right" in most cases. :?

Try dancing in your shadow. No really! It's very interesting. Your movements get sharply definted in a new way and at the same time you're not distracted by evaluating what you look like in general--all of us will tend to do that.

Mala

[peachexploration]

Yeah, Mala, that actually makes sense especially with just body movement in general. Must try that one. :)

[Flujo]

This is a good read if anyone is interested. If not then it will fade back into the abyss.

[ptwist]

im a hip hop dancer first..so being loose is sort of easy...its the opposite though for me ..i have to train to look "clean" though

its about lookin loose but being controlled....learn basic body isolations ....rib cage...shoulders etc. and just be relaxed....keep your posture which is chest up shoulders down and you should def look more "salsa"

[bas]

This is a good read if anyone is interested. If not then it will fade back into the abyss.Thanks for raising this from the dead Flujo.
I had just started filming myself and using the mirrors but the other tips in the thread seem good as well. Time to try them all :)

[Flujo]

no probs ;)
..and welcome to SF!!

[Flujo]

im a hip hop dancer first..so being loose is sort of easy...
<snip>
....keep your posture which is chest up shoulders down and you should def look more "salsa"
That's so true. It was over a year before a familiar face pulled me up on that one. It looks better yeah but you also 'feel' so much better with the right posture. I still slouch over as old habits die hard but when practising at home in front of the mirror that's the first thing that gets corrected. Shoulders...up, back then down.

I like what you said about control too and can imagine you having to work on being clean. I like it when you work on all that and then one day you notice that it's starting to pay off. You start to feel a real sense of confidence in your movements, not feeling like your doing something because you are suppose to or because it's the best option but because it feels right.

[ptwist]

^ you dont even know .... i assumed every salsa dance was a hgh energy hip hop performance... i wanted to look hyper and cool ..but realized it just doesnt look right ....seeing a smooth and controlled dance is what its all about ...

I modeled my style after frankie and oliver pineda....i just saw how they were subtle but to me it was like WOW ....they had great posture which is what i had to learn...and dont be a big show off .....when give nthe chance just do something small but with feeling .... my posture simply made me look alot more clean and technique wise feels better for the follower as well ....

[Flujo]

I have the same influences but with Shaka Brown added to that list, oh and recently the Cobo brothers as well. Where would we be without YouTube eh.

I used to look really floppy (soft) when dancing. Thankfully a teacher pulled me up on that. I hope the advice has stuck! I'm still at the stage where I overdoo a lot of things but it's becoming easier to remember what feels good and which angles work for various movements.

Angles? There's probably a proper dance phrase for this but you know when you cut across your mid with your arms when you turn or when you make that L shape to stop a follower after a spin with your left arm. One of the things that still feel overdone even after all this time are CBL's with inside turns. I'm just now getting the hang of the whole down-up-turn thing without looking like I'm cranking some six foot water pump . If I can make those as smooth and as effortless as some of the pro's then I'd consider that an achievement. :)

Where are you at at the moment dance wise?

[dosvueltas2]

I have a suggestion on how the advanced dancers might help the rest of us. Why not post a link to a vid about really smooth dancing? And instead of just leaving it at that, critique that vid, point out good parts and negative pointers, to illustrate what you mean? I think that would personally really help me, as frequently when it comes to technique, I don't understand so well just reading it.

[chrisk]

Maybe my wires are crossed, but how will watching a video of a smooth dancer help you in developing your own smoothness? In my opinion watching a video won't tell you if there's already some smoothness in your dancing and if yes in which moments. Only a lady dancing with you will notice if your movement is smooth and feels good to her or not. So wouldn't it be more helpful to invest in one or more privates and focus on improving your smoothness with an instructor to get some qualified feedback and instructions?

[opm1s6]

i'm actually a little suprised at what people consider fluid dancers, but I'll Jareau to the list.

As far as fluidity, it all starts with stability and having the proper weight balance, but I feel like having longer arms, allows me not only to be able to be more fluid, but as a unit, my partner and I can be more fluid. Ultimately, experience tends to make you more fluid naturally, but if your core, weight balance, and feet aren't where they need to be, you're constantly battling yourself and dealing with control.

A lot of the patterns I'm learning these days, don't take advantage of my body, and instead are short quick moving close partnerwork which is all fine and good, but there are certainly some patterns that are far easier to stay fluid on. I feel that doing a lot of open-breaks (keep your elbow bent) allows you to do a lot more stuff that looks fluid. I also like a lot of 360s (I don't do them often enough) because the tension adds to the fluidity when done right.

[Flujo]

Maybe my wires are crossed, but how will watching a video of a smooth dancer help you in developing your own smoothness?
Are you talking about smoothness in style rather that feeling smooth to your partner dosvueltas2? Maybe a good start is doing what suits your body type like opm1s6 said. Doing things in slow motion might help a little towards being smoother too. I've not taken one yet myself but I think chris's suggestion to take a private lesson would be a good one if you really want to develop your smoothness quickly.

The problem with commenting on a video could be with a lack of experience/knowledge in teaching. It's like the difference between knowing how to walk and knowing how to train someone to walk who has never done it before.

Maybe you could ask your teacher?

[dosvueltas2]

Are you talking about smoothness in style rather that feeling smooth to your partner dosvueltas2?

Thanks Flujo. I was not talking about feeling smooth to my partner but more smoothness in style. However I did think it would be interesting to point out why different salsa dancers look smooth or fluid. The actual ability will have to come from practice, but I find it helpful to know on an intellectual level why some dancers look the way they do, what general and applicable principles can be derived, and so on.

It was just a suggestion. I am not looking to cheap out. I am already taking two to three privates a week.

[sweavo]

Maybe my wires are crossed, but how will watching a video of a smooth dancer help you in developing your own smoothness?

"When we observe the actions of others, we activate the same [brain] circuitry responsible for planning and executing our own actions ... By observing another individual learning to move accurately in a novel mechanical environment, observers move more accurately themselves.""

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20050406/complex-muscle-movements-learn-by-watching

[terence]

snip

but I find it helpful to know on an intellectual level why some dancers look the way they do, what general and applicable principles can be derived, and so on.


.

It is a very "ethereal " quality that comes usually with time ( even thats not a guarantee ) .

The lesson quota is good.. but.. as one world class coach would say " for each hr lesson.. 4/6 hrs practice " .

Learn to really understand the foundation of what you dance, and begin to know how to apply that knowledge to music .

Adding copious amounts of variety may be pleasurable.. but.. it will not guarantee or expedite what you are seeking .

[Flujo]

The actual ability will have to come from practice, but I find it helpful to know on an intellectual level why some dancers look the way they do, what general and applicable principles can be derived, and so on.

It was just a suggestion. I am not looking to cheap out. I am already taking two to three privates a week.
Cheap out? No way. Didn't think that at all. Good advice is good advice, plain and simple. ;) If you do a search for "Milton Cobo workshop" on YouTube you might find exactly what you're looking for. As far as breaking down smoothness in dancing I wouldn't know where to start. Maybe some of the more experienced Salser@s would be able to chime in...

I definitely agree with sweavo in that watching first makes the doing a whole lot easier (or familiar).

[chrisk]

"When we observe the actions of others, we activate the same [brain] circuitry responsible for planning and executing our own actions ... By observing another individual learning to move accurately in a novel mechanical environment, observers move more accurately themselves.""

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20050406/complex-muscle-movements-learn-by-watching

Interesting, but oberserving others only works when the others are also learning something according to the article. So, going by this study/experiment, you would need to watch videos where somebody else is learning to be/look smooth, so that you might learn unconciously about it. But how many videos do really show somebody learning this?

So, reading now, that dosvueltas is more interested in the aspect of looking smooth then feeling smooth (to the ladies ;)), I can understand how a video might help. Then it might help to start a new thread in the video section to collect videos of dancers that various people consider smooth.

[Flujo]

i'm actually a little suprised at what people consider fluid dancers, but I'll Jareau to the list.

As far as fluidity, it all starts with stability and having the proper weight balance...
<snip>
Ultimately, experience tends to make you more fluid naturally, but if your core, weight balance, and feet aren't where they need to be, you're constantly battling yourself and dealing with control.
Hmm, I'm not sure why I didn't respond to this but yeah. Agree 100% on that one opm1s6. Sweavos, "Dimensions of the Multiverse bearing down on you", video ;) helped with this and also the discussion about being grounded a while back. You'd think using your weight to connect with the floor like that would make you sluggish but it has the opposite effect. I feel that it allows you to have a lot more control. If your weight is in place in time then you can launch yourself in a lot quicker.

So like you said. Fluidity starts with stability and proper weight balance. I'll stick with that until a teacher tells me different. :)

When we work with our weight balance I think we can also play with it. So instead of just stepping back and forth, side to side, plonking down our weight on the correct counts we can start to move into the steps using our momentum. I tried tried to explain this but failed miserably. Maybe another time.

[viosil2003]

found this while searching for something else.
Good topic; love the input from everyone.

Going back to the original post, I would like to add that in my experience, the first thing that got me out of that robotic way of dancing was the way I associated the counting with my steps.

The way the basic count is taught in relation to the dance is usually: 1-step, two-step, 3-step, 4-pause, 5-step, 6-step, 7-step, 8-pause. Or at least that's how beginners usually interpret the instructions. This is often done with no music. So when the music is finally presented, we usually look for the beat, find it, and then step on each one of them, 'pausing' on 4 and 8. Back then, My instructors kept telling me to move but I didn't understand what they meant and didn't ask for specifics because I just thought I unconsciously stopped.

Finally, I looked in the mirror while dancing sideways and saw what they saw. I started experimenting. I did shines with different counts to compare with the basic. When I did a shine with a full count I saw a little difference in movement. So I did a basic, counting the 4 and 8, without stepping on them obviously. I was surprised to see that my body automatically moved on those beats even when no steps were taken. My body was just used to moving when my mind counted a beat since that's how it was taught. So I went further and started moving in between the steps as well and the change was very significant, my movement was continuous. I practiced this daily and stopped looking like a robot. Once I started doing body isolation exercises, it improved even further.

That's my story. Hope that helps some of you instructors, though I am sure you already know.

[kerry.alder]

It is a very "ethereal " quality that comes usually with time ( even thats not a guarantee ) .

The lesson quota is good.. but.. as one world class coach would say " for each hr lesson.. 4/6 hrs practice " .



For every hour of lessons, four to six hours of practice. How many people actually do that?

I used to practice a lot more when I was a beginner, now, as an intermediate level dancer, I tend to do the dances and moves I know a lot better and practice the ones I am not familiar with a lot less, bad I know. Must change. Must practice. I DO want to hav that fluidity to my dance movements :)

[kerry.alder]

found this while searching for something else.
Good topic; love the input from everyone.

Going back to the original post, I would like to add that in my experience, the first thing that got me out of that robotic way of dancing was the way I associated the counting with my steps.

The way the basic count is taught in relation to the dance is usually: 1-step, two-step, 3-step, 4-pause, 5-step, 6-step, 7-step, 8-pause. Or at least that's how beginners usually interpret the instructions. This is often done with no music. So when the music is finally presented, we usually look for the beat, find it, and then step on each one of them, 'pausing' on 4 and 8. Back then, My instructors kept telling me to move but I didn't understand what they meant and didn't ask for specifics because I just thought I unconsciously stopped.



Very descriptive and accurate! When I first started, I was the 1-step, two-step, 3-step, 4-pause, 5-step, 6-step, 7-step, 8-pause person. I hope I am no longer that person but I'll let my dance partners decide that one :P

One of my dance instructors said it looked like I was doing the 'Dance Dance Revolution' machine when I first started to salsa :P

What do others find to be more difficult in getting fluid dance movement. Upper body movement like with spins and arm movements or is it with lower body footwork?

[malcolm]

For every hour of lessons, four to six hours of practice. How many people actually do that?*puts hand up*

I'm about buggered if I don't, dancing does not come naturally to me, not in the slightest :nope:


The Shines Compilations on here helped a lot, I now just muck around a bit, jam and groove along, and generally do what the music makes me feel rather than just relying on the shines I've been taught. Watching others just doing their thing definitely opened my eyes to a lot of 'other' movements.

[Offbeat]

For every hour of lessons, four to six hours of practice. How many people actually do that

One reason I never do shines. Practicing never came easy to me. Wait, I never ever practiced. And also stopped taking lessons, stunting my salsa growth I guess.

Regarding Fluidity: I agree with some of what opm wrote. In addition to stability and proper weight transfers (by which I also assumes you know where your feet should be in any given movement), I will add timing as a third factor. Here I am referring less to dancing on time and more to the moment in time when you decide to hook your fingers or position your arm or leg at the right place for the lead, etc.

Regarding Smoothness: I think first thing is to be want to be smooth. And then working towards it. To some it just comes naturally and others need work. Here's my thinking of what makes someone smooth (leader): minimum noise in the body and arms; no excessive movements - do only the minimum necessary to go from A to B; knowing the position of follower's feet, arms and orientation before, during and after you lead her from A to B; waiting for the follower to finish and knowing when she is stable enough to lead the next move; move with a purpose, don't move randomly. e.g. if you take a small or large step, you are doing it for a good reason. Eliminate random movements that result in over rotation, bending over forward or back, imbalance, etc. I am thinking out loud, never consciously processed what makes a smooth lead.

[SalseraRita]

Regarding Fluidity: I agree with some of what opm wrote. In addition to stability and proper weight transfers (by which I also assumes you know where your feet should be in any given movement), I will add timing as a third factor. Here I am referring less to dancing on time and more to the moment in time when you decide to hook your fingers or position your arm or leg at the right place for the lead, etc.

Regarding Smoothness: I think first thing is to be want to be smooth. And then working towards it. To some it just comes naturally and others need work. Here's my thinking of what makes someone smooth (leader): minimum noise in the body and arms; no excessive movements - do only the minimum necessary to go from A to B; knowing the position of follower's feet, arms and orientation before, during and after you lead her from A to B; waiting for the follower to finish and knowing when she is stable enough to lead the next move; move with a purpose, don't move randomly. e.g. if you take a small or large step, you are doing it for a good reason. Eliminate random movements that result in over rotation, bending over forward or back, imbalance, etc. I am thinking out loud, never consciously processed what makes a smooth lead.

Great post, Offbeat! Now if only a good follower would smoothly swoop in and make a similar brainstorm ;)

[Jag75]

"When we observe the actions of others, we activate the same [brain] circuitry responsible for planning and executing our own actions ... By observing another individual learning to move accurately in a novel mechanical environment, observers move more accurately themselves.""

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20050406/complex-muscle-movements-learn-by-watching

Regardless of any debate that might come from the above - I know from personal experience that whenever I go to Sydney (I go a lot) for social dancing and I'm dancing amongst elite dancers I definitely feel myself improve much more quickly, and I can attribute a large quantity of my smoothness comes from dancing in amongst very advanced dancers.

The best way to achieve smoothness is to start with proper stepping technique, learn to properly ground your steps and transfer your weight, obtain a good understanding of the mechanics required, and practice practice practice practice (only the right stuff - practicing bad techique will only re-enforce bad technique). You also need to be mindful of correct leading and correct timing. At first it's a lot but eventually it all gets very easy.

[SalsaGipsy]

I agree with most of the advice here about accuiring proper technique - it is key. One thing I want to add is: learn to understand and use the momentum. First of all keep constant connection with the follower so that you feel her movement. Then try to use the momentum instead of fighting it. Also when you need to stop the follower's movement, don't do it in the "hit a brick wall" way but allow for it to come to a stop softly. This is important for both the feeling of the lead and the look of it - it gives your dancing more glide.

[Blair]

It's an interesting one, I've been dancing about 11months now, pretty much solid 4days a week [classes and social] and I'd always watch people and think "wow, how does that look so smooth and fluid?!"

And as folk here have pointed out I reckon it's not just down to one set skill, its a combination of many like body isolation, connection with your partner, feeling comfortable etc etc

This is my two cents on it, and I'm probably wrong, but the more fun you have whilst dancing and if you can adopt the "I don't give a ****" attitude on what people think of my dancing (by this I mean I'm dancing only with the girl infront of me - not the people watching) the faster you develope into that more smooth person, guess confidence plays a big part.

[terence]

Regarding Fluidity: . In addition to stability and proper weight transfers (by which I also assumes you know where your feet should be in any given movement),



Regarding Smoothness: knowing the position of follower's feet, arms and orientation before, during and after you lead her from A to B; waiting for the follower to finish and knowing when she is stable enough to lead the next move; move with a purpose, don't move randomly. e.g. if you take a small or large step, you are doing it for a good reason.

Eliminate random movements that result in over rotation, bending over forward or back, imbalance, etc.
.




Para1... More importantly, where your BODY should be..

Para 2.. Fluidity/smoothness is a 2 way street.. one cannot always induce this into the opposite partners actions ( wish it were that simple )..

Para 3.. Those are more of a technical problem ,that will/may create other issues ..

[sunsoul]

"When we observe the actions of others, we activate the same [brain] circuitry responsible for planning and executing our own actions ... By observing another individual learning to move accurately in a novel mechanical environment, observers move more accurately themselves.""

http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20050406/complex-muscle-movements-learn-by-watching

Regardless of any debate that might come from the above - I know from personal experience that whenever I go to Sydney (I go a lot) for social dancing and I'm dancing amongst elite dancers I definitely feel myself improve much more quickly, and I can attribute a large quantity of my smoothness comes from dancing in amongst very advanced dancers.

The best way to achieve smoothness is to start with proper stepping technique, learn to properly ground your steps and transfer your weight, obtain a good understanding of the mechanics required, and practice practice practice practice (only the right stuff - practicing bad techique will only re-enforce bad technique). You also need to be mindful of correct leading and correct timing. At first it's a lot but eventually it all gets very easy.

I think that it is essentially a two part process: the watching and the doing. From watching others dance in a smooth way I think you are taking in information and all sorts of cues that can help you develop your own smoothness in your dancing. The brain really is a sponge for acquiring lots of info that can be helpful to you in achieving your aims and targets.

Then, the actual doing will reinforce that smoothness as you repeat and practice over time. Some studies have shown that LTP (long term potentiation) is a process whereby the brain will reinforce certain synaptic connections whenever particular actions are repeated. This helps learning take place, and helps you perform any action better as you tune into it more and more.

Both processes are important, and I probably don't watch others dance enough, especially advanced dancers. Watching people who are better than you can be helpful in promoting better learning, and keep you on the right track.

[sweavo]

(by this I mean I'm dancing only with the girl infront of me - not the people watching) the faster you develope into that more smooth person, guess confidence plays a big part.

So true. Self-awareness without self-consciousness is a great way to be!

[SnowDancer]

One reason I never do shines. Practicing never came easy to me. Wait, I never ever practiced. And also stopped taking lessons, stunting my salsa growth I guess.


Hey, I've run into you at 2-3 congresses now; and you look pretty damn smooth, and never seem to suffer from a lack of women wanting to dance with you.:cheers:

I HAVE to practice, as almost nothing in these Latin dances comes easy to me. Plus, it keeps me from getting bored: I'll walk through a pattern 4-5 times while bread is toasting or something's heating up in the microwave or there's a commercial on TV.

[Offbeat]

a lack of women wanting to dance with you.:cheers:

Thanks for very kind words SnowDancer, but here's a little secret - BMOPs** - shhh...don't tell anyone :D So it is really only an illusion.

**BMOPs - Bring my own partners (all the way from home)

P.S. - I still limit myself to dancing with only up to certain level of dancers. I am mortified of dancing with the really advance salseras. You are much braver than I am :)

[redsalsero]

Watched a youtube clip once. A lady says.
If you want to be able to style to the music. You must make your bodymovements believable.
So instead of doing something random with your arms and " trying to style". Instead do something dat you could do
In real life. Example: wave with with a flag, throw a rock/playing card away, carry heavy stuff, throw stuff up or any direction.
As long as you belive you can do this your styling will look more believable.
I personally like waving with a flag :D