Beginner's Corner

[salsachinita]

This is the place for all you newbies (lurking ones included :wink: )!

Do you have any issues/queries that you have been dying to put forward, but never knew when/where?

This is your chance to start picking our collective brain :wink: ......please go ahead!

[peachexploration]

Any beginners out there? :D

EDIT: Just for clarification. Decided to add the following for beginniners:
Salsa styles from Wikipedia.com

Cuban style
Cuban-style salsa can be danced either "on one" or "a contratiempo" ---the latter is often referred to as "on two". An essential element is the "cuba step" (also known as Guapea), where the leader does a backward basic on 1-2-3 and a forward basic on 5-6-7. The follower does the same, thereby mirroring the leader's movement. Another characteristic of this style is that in many patterns the leader and follower circle around each other.

The cross body lead is an essential step in this style too and is referred to as Dile que no. This move becomes essential in the more complex derivative of Cuban Casino leading to the many moves of Rueda, or wheel dance. Here multiple couples exchange partners and carry out moves syncronised by a caller.

Colombian style
This style is common in Latin-American countries. The leader and follower do most of the movements while standing in place. It stems from the Cuban style. As such in many patterns the leader and follower turn around each other, although not as much as in the Cuban style; in fact, in several parts of Colombia, salsa is danced with very limited or no turns at all.

Los Angeles style
This is a style of salsa much influenced by Hollywood and by the swing & mambo dances, thus being the most flashy style, which is considered "more show than dance" by many. The two essential elements of this dance are the forward/backward basic as described above, and the cross-body lead. In this pattern, the leader steps forward on 1, steps to the right on 2-3 while turning 90 degrees counter-clockwise (facing to the left). The follower then steps forward on 5-6, and turns on 7-8, while the leader makes another 90 degrees counter-clockwise. After these 8 counts, the leader and follower have exchanged their positions.

New York style or Eddie Torres style
The "NY Style" is a combination of the "On 1" and "On 2" systems. The timing of the steps are on the 1-2-3,5-6-7 as in "On 1" but the breaks (where the body changes direction) occur on the 2 and 6 as in "On 2". NY instructor Eddie Torres developed this step pattern around the late '70s and the '80s, and its definition is quite clear as he is still alive and his followers are keen to keep the style intact. This is their description of the step: Description of "On Two" on salsanewyork.com There are many "socials" in NYC or nightclubs that dedicate on playing only mambo or salsa.

Power 2 / Palladium 2 / Ballroom Mambo
This style is similar to Los-Angeles style, but it is danced "On Two". The basic step timing is 2-3-4,6-7-8 with the breaks on 2 and 6.

It is important to note that although this style is also known as dancing "En Clave", the name is not implying that the step timing should follow the rhythm of the Clave as in 2-3 or 3-2. It only means that you take the first step (and break) on the second beat of the measure.

On Clave
This does indeed follow the 2-3 or 3-2 pattern of the clave, e.g. for the 2-3 clave the leader steps forward with the left on 2 and with the right on 3, then does the other 4 steps of the basic on 5-8 (syncronizing with the clave on 5 and 8 ). It's a traditional form and it's less known/used outside some Latin countries.

Puerto Rican style
This style can be danced as "On One" or "On Two". If danced as "On Two", it is always danced on count 2, and not on count 6 as in Ladies-style NY.

Casino Rueda style
Main article: Rueda de Casino. In the 1950s Salsa Rueda (Rueda de Casino) was developed in Havana, Cuba. Pairs of dancers form a circle (Rueda in Spanish), with dance moves called out by one person. Many of the moves involve rapidly swapping partners.

[sagitta]

Me!!!!!!! Oh me!!! Here I am !!!

[ArtsySalsera]

dancefreak.com/stories/images/learning_curve.jpg

Since I just posted this on another thread I thought I'd be helpful here.

[peachexploration]

Thanks for posting the link AS! Yes, it is important for beginners to know that quite often leaders and follows learn at different rates. So yes, especially in the beginning phases, some patience is required for both leaders and follows. :D

[lucretia]

Where am I and how did I get here?

:D :lol: :lol:

Well I guess have been here before - sometime. But the funny thing is that I didn't find my way back again. Today when I posted a new text at DF I found the link again.

I must ask - what is the purpose of this forum?
It seems to be the same people here as at DF (which is great :D ) . Some the topics seems to differ a bit. Like the Salsa Videocuts. (also great :D)

Is it the same server?
Is it sponsored by same companies or private persons?

Is this special corner of DF - for salsa addicted - or what?

/lucretia

[peachexploration]

...I must ask - what is the purpose of this forum?Just for Salsa addicts of course. :D Welcome Lucretia. :)

[SalsaWinnipeg]

Where am I and how did I get here?

:D :lol: :lol:

Well I guess have been here before - sometime. But the funny thing is that I didn't find my way back again. Today when I posted a new text at DF I found the link again.

I must ask - what is the purpose of this forum?
It seems to be the same people here as at DF (which is great :D ) . Some the topics seems to differ a bit. Like the Salsa Videocuts. (also great :D)

Is it the same server?
Is it sponsored by same companies or private persons?

Is this special corner of DF - for salsa addicted - or what?
/lucretia
I kind of had the same question... Dance Forums seems to have much more members and posts, so I was wondering why the "duplication"? Checking both forums is a bit of a hustle...

[peachexploration]

This is the place for all you newbies (lurking ones included :wink: )!

Do you have any issues/queries that you have been dying to put forward, but never knew when/where?

This is your chance to start picking our collective brain :wink: ......please go ahead!

Any beginners have questions about Salsa dancing? :wink:

[hopelessly_addicted]

At a private yesterday, I've received a feedback that my "under arm turn" is in fact done more like a spin. My problem seems to lie on the fact that I don't distinctive steps on 5, 6, 7.

What I have trouble is that when turning, a follower does spin a little on 6 - how do i make it look more like a turn? Can anyone please break down the steps involved for a turn? Say the turn is a very slow one, am I still suppose to spot when turning? I've briefly had a look at the discussions in the dance-forums.com, but most of the discussion seem to be about spins... Thanks in advance!

[SDsalsaguy]

OK, there are several different versions of this, but here's one to try out. The leader should have prepared you to turn by raising his hand by the end of the 4, right? OK, so, on the 5, step your left foot diagonally forward and across to your right. On the 6 do not move your feet but pivot your torso around to your right so that your body weight is now on your right foot (you should basically now be facing diagonally the same direction as the leader.) On the 7 continue rotating your torso to the right, coming back to face the leader and replacing weight on your left foot (so ready to step back on your right on the 1).

HTH

[Note: This exact same footwork can be done in various alignments, i.e. directly towards and then away from and then back towards the leader, or directly across to the side and back and the towards the leader as well.] [/i]

[peachexploration]

At a private yesterday, I've received a feedback that my "under arm turn" is in fact done more like a spin. My problem seems to lie on the fact that I don't distinctive steps on 5, 6, 7.


Are you "anticipating" a spin? What kind of signal are you getting from your lead? As long as your not moving ahead of your lead and the lead gives the correct signal, then I think your right with the above. You need to keep your feet to the ground so to speak and pivot on your 5, 6, 7 beats. I hope this helps. Anyone else? :)

[hopelessly_addicted]

Are you "anticipating" a spin? What kind of signal are you getting from your lead? As long as your not moving ahead of your lead and the lead gives the correct signal, then I think your right with the above. You need to keep your feet to the ground so to speak and pivot on your 5, 6, 7 beats. I hope this helps. Anyone else? :)

I try my best not to back-lead.. could you please elaborate on what you meant by pivotting on my 5, 6, 7 beats?? I would have thought that if I pivot at all when turning, I'd only do it on the 6th beat..

[peachexploration]

HA, do you dance on1 or on2? on1, first step for the turn would be on the five beat and on2, first step for the turn would be on the six beat. :)

[hopelessly_addicted]

HA, do you dance on1 or on2? on1, first step for the turn would be on the five beat and on2, first step for the turn would be on the six beat. :)

oh i see.. so you meant depending on whether I danace on1 or on2, I'd be stepping on different beat when turning.. I dance on1 Peache :D

[peachexploration]

Okay, I thought you dance on1 but wasn't sure. :) I think you're right in your assessment from the beginning though. When doing a right turn, you have to remember to "step" on those 5,6,7 counts so you're on the right track. :)

[hopelessly_addicted]

on the 5, step your left foot diagonally forward and across to your right.
So is my left foot stepping across in 2 o'clock direction?

On the 6 do not move your feet but pivot your torso around to your right so that your body weight is now on your right foot (you should basically now be facing diagonally the same direction as the leader.)
So I'm not really spotting like I do when spinning (always facing the leader).... I've just tried turning a few times on 5, 6, 7 having your advice in mind, I feel increasingly dizzy but I guess it doesn't matter because I wouldn't have to do turns continuously :)

On the 7 continue rotating your torso to the right, coming back to face the leader and replacing weight on your left foot (so ready to step back on your right on the 1).
Your advice to rotate torso when turning is really helpful! I've focused more on pivotting on the ball of my right foot that I've kinda forgotten about it.

Sorry for being pedantic here, but when I'm rotating my torso, is it like spinning where you try to spin with your shoulders leading the movement or do I use my stomach muscles to rotate or both?

It seems like nothing comes easily for me - not even a simple under arm turn :oops: Really embarrassing that I've been doing a spin rather than a turn..

[hopelessly_addicted]

Okay, I thought you dance on1 but wasn't sure. :) I think you're right in your assessment from the beginning though. When doing a right turn, you have to remember to "step" on those 5,6,7 counts so you're on the right track. :)

Thanks Peache! :) Yeah.. so I'd have to step, step, step on 5, 6, 7 rather than step, pivot, step which is what I used to do... I'm on the right track in my head. Now, I'd have to make sure that my body is also on the right track :shock: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

on the 5, step your left foot diagonally forward and across to your right.
So is my left foot stepping across in 2 o'clock direction?
That's correct 1 or 2 (although the same idea works stepping to either 12 or 3 o'clock as well).

On the 6 do not move your feet but pivot your torso around to your right so that your body weight is now on your right foot (you should basically now be facing diagonally the same direction as the leader.)
So I'm not really spotting like I do when spinning (always facing the leader).... I've just tried turning a few times on 5, 6, 7 having your advice in mind, I feel increasingly dizzy but I guess it doesn't matter because I wouldn't have to do turns continuously :)
Correct, the spotting would be different. For a simple walk around turn many people don't spot, but that doesn't mean you can't. The only difference would be that you'd keep your eye on the leader on the 5 and as long as you can as you rotate and step on the 6, coming around at the end of the 6 and already being in place on the 7. Alternatively, it can be done as a 2 point spot, staying with the leader on 5 and coming back to the leader on 7, but picking up something else across from the leader on the 6. Just keep in mind that any spotting is going to provide at least a little bit of the spin look/feel (vs. just a walk around turn).

On the 7 continue rotating your torso to the right, coming back to face the leader and replacing weight on your left foot (so ready to step back on your right on the 1).
Your advice to rotate torso when turning is really helpful! I've focused more on pivotting on the ball of my right foot that I've kinda forgotten about it.
Glad to be of help!

Sorry for being pedantic here, but when I'm rotating my torso, is it like spinning where you try to spin with your shoulders leading the movement or do I use my stomach muscles to rotate or both?
Hmmm, I've never really thought about it like that, at least not for a simple walk around turn. I've always found the key to be making sure that all ten toes are always facing in the same direction -- especially as pivoting and shifting weight from the left foot on the 5 back onto the right foot on the 6. Does that provide any help?

It seems like nothing comes easily for me - not even a simple under arm turn :oops: Really embarrassing that I've been doing a spin rather than a turn..
You've got nothing to be embarassed about h_a, it took me months just to find the "1" :oops:

[peachexploration]

It actually is a pivot step BUT ignore the word pivot. I think its throwing you off. Just concentrate on your footwork for now until you can get a better handle on it. :D

Watch the follows footwork here :arrow: bustamove.com/cgi-bin/scripts/free.pl?d=salsa&m=3

[squirrel]

I very rarely use the above turn nowadays... especially as we dance with double spins to the right...
I prefer spinning on 567, rather than turning... this means that actually my spin is on 5 and I hold 6 and 7 (on 5 I spin fast and just move a little in the same spot on 6 and 7). I also use the prep I learned from Susana Montero, that is, when the leader signals a right turn, instead of doing the basic on 123 and finishing with my body parralel to the leader's, I place my right foot with the toes pointing out to my right and my body a little turned to the right on 3. Then I use my shoulders to spin on 5, while kicking with my elbows... :). Does it make any sense? :)

Oh, and this technique helped me do double spins... and triples... :)

[hopelessly_addicted]

I also use the prep I learned from Susana Montero, that is, when the leader signals a right turn, instead of doing the basic on 123 and finishing with my body parralel to the leader's, I place my right foot with the toes pointing out to my right and my body a little turned to the right on 3. Then I use my shoulders to spin on 5, while kicking with my elbows... :). Does it make any sense? :)

YEAH! It makes perfect sense! :) I just tried it on my carpeted floor bear feet and it worked. Thanks for sharing Squirrel :D

I practised my turns heaps today at my group lesson class. Much more confident about it since I understand in my mind what I should do and my body's slowly catching up 8)

[squirrel]

Glad I helped! :)

Oh, and another thing... It is very important for you to be able to do spins on your own, without being led. I always have my students practice individually prior to teaching in couple. :). Exercise at home and you'll be able to spin better. :) The same goes for any step, especially the CBL and the copa! :)

There is also another method of spinning to the right, which I heard from Edie the Salsa Freak, but I haven't really understood how it works yet, so I won't describe it, for fear of saying something wrong.

Of course, as soon as I feel confident about it, I'll share!

[MacMoto]

So I'm not really spotting like I do when spinning (always facing the leader).... I've just tried turning a few times on 5, 6, 7 having your advice in mind, I feel increasingly dizzy
I don't really "spot" as such but do a sort of extended eye contact for a single turn, flicking my head around at the end of the 6. It looks particularly nice and sexy when the music is slow, and most guys love it.

[salsachinita]

Sorry I'm late on this......

I can answer HA's original question here.....if it's the instructor I'm thinking of, he's signature move would be a walk-around-turn (which, you simply walk) accentuating the music (which is NOT a fast move, rather, one that feels slightly behind beat in the typical Cuban manner).

Given that, a spin (completed with spoting if you like) commonly expected of you from your other lessons and/or leads, is best to be taken as a different move altogether.

It's an excellent idea to make the 'spin' & 'turn' two very distinctive moves, so that you will be able to mix & match according to different leads & music :D !

[squirrel]

Yes, SC... this is what I do! :)

[salsadame]

hi. i'm a beginner salsera, and have been takin a couple of classes last month in Dec 20004. learnt the Right Turn, CBL and Reverse Left Turn from those classes.. but have since been down to the social clubs and been practisin hard with a fellow intermediate salsero. i'm hopin to improve more.. in particular my turns.. spotting nicely and to turn without relyin too much on my partner - as mentioned by Squirrel. need some help and advice on the points below:

1) how should i practice on my own at home? what routines and turns should i do besides tryin to perfect the Right Turn?

2) Starting with the Double-handed hold proceedin to do a Right Turn and then a Left turn immediately. ie. 1234 (Basic) 5678 (Right) / 1234 (Left) 5678 (Basic). here's my problem. 1234 - Left Pivot Turn (i got stuck. cuz i just turn on 1 and by 3 i'm facing my partner but since my feet are still rooted to the ground.. my right feet is crossed behind my left leg. can someone please breakdown the proper footwork for the Left Pivot Turn please?)

3) i'm also bein ambitious and tryin to do / practice the Double Right Turn at home. can someone break down the footwork and prep for the Double Right Turn please? understand that it's quite different from the Single Right Turn.

thanks heaps for any input!! and Hi everyone!! this is my first post. =)

[squirrel]

I strongly recommend Edie The Salsa Freak's Spins Video... :)

[MacMoto]

Welcome to SF, Tingteo!

1) how should i practice on my own at home? what routines and turns should i do besides tryin to perfect the Right Turn?

I also recommend Edie's spins video. Edie also has a website, and she's written a couple of articles on spinning.
dancefreak.com/stories/posture.htm
dancefreak.com/stories/spins.htm

You can practise spotting on your own. Practising turns (both right and left turns and cross-body (travellig) turns) on your own also helps you learn to keep your balance and stop relying on the leader to turn you.

2) Starting with the Double-handed hold proceedin to do a Right Turn and then a Left turn immediately. ie. 1234 (Basic) 5678 (Right) / 1234 (Left) 5678 (Basic). here's my problem. 1234 - Left Pivot Turn (i got stuck. cuz i just turn on 1 and by 3 i'm facing my partner but since my feet are still rooted to the ground.. my right feet is crossed behind my left leg. can someone please breakdown the proper footwork for the Left Pivot Turn please?)
I'm not familiar with this move, but if I'm led to turn left 1234 after a right turn, I think I would do it by back breaking on the right foot on 1, turning (pivoting on the left foot) on 2 and stepping on the right foot on 3 to complete the turn. Then you should be ready to step forward on the left foot on 5. Don't try to turn on 1 -- you are on the wrong foot for a left turn. You should be pivoting on the left foot.

3) i'm also bein ambitious and tryin to do / practice the Double Right Turn at home. can someone break down the footwork and prep for the Double Right Turn please? understand that it's quite different from the Single Right Turn.
For a double right turn, you need to start the first turn on the 5, as opposed to stepping forward on 5 and turning on 6. You can step as normal on 123 and prep on 4, but my teacher tells us to do the 1-2 prep (stepping in place on 1 and put the left foot in front of the right on 2, keeping your weight on the ball of the right foot and coiling your upper body to the left) even when you are only doing a double turn.

Are you still going to classes? A good teacher can help you with these techniques. Practising with a partner is good, but remember that he doesn't necessarily know what the follower should be doing...

[peachexploration]

Hi Tingteo! Let us know how you're doing. :)

[salsadame]

thanks guys! thanks for respondin. somehow i did not get the replies in my emails after squirrel.. hence the delay in reply. only managed to read the posts today after checkin back on the forum manually.. and was real glad to read the extensive comments. =)

i've been readin up on edie's website. yeah.. cool stuff there. the tips are great i must say.

"You can practise spotting on your own. Practising turns (both right and left turns and cross-body (travellig) turns) on your own also helps you learn to keep your balance and stop relying on the leader to turn you."

u know.. i've been practisin at home with socks (been viewin heaps of video clips as well.. seems like they use socks) the past 2 weeks with my practice partner.. and my turns were just startin to get better until i started practisin with my heels! realised i have to practise more to gain balance again! arghh. but i suppose everyone goes thru that when they start with socks?

another problem that i'm facin now is that there are times when my right and left turns are right on the spot. and i'm balanced. but there are the next few turns that throws me off balance too. it gets frustrating.. but i suppose it's just the beginnin.. and i'll get better. i try to spot (and manage to find my head in the mirror after a turn).. but i still loose my balance. arrghh.

travellin turns. i have been practisin that as well. (just started practisin that) i think my problem is that my steps are too huge.. comments from my practise partner. haha.. i try to reduce my huge footwork.. and as a result i subconciously look at the floor.. and when i do that i loose my balance! any tips on how i can keep balance.. and doin travel turns with small steps? well if there are no tips.. i guess it's just practice! :P


"I'm not familiar with this move, but if I'm led to turn left 1234 after a right turn, I think I would do it by back breaking on the right foot on 1, turning (pivoting on the left foot) on 2 and stepping on the right foot on 3 to complete the turn. Then you should be ready to step forward on the left foot on 5. Don't try to turn on 1 -- you are on the wrong foot for a left turn. You should be pivoting on the left foot."

hey yeah! thanks for that confirmation. ;) was practisin and stumbled on the turn on left foot thingy (when i found that out.. it was after writin the post.. and before readin MacMoto's response. thanks MacMoto for breakin down the steps for me!


"For a double right turn, you need to start the first turn on the 5, as opposed to stepping forward on 5 and turning on 6. You can step as normal on 123 and prep on 4, but my teacher tells us to do the 1-2 prep (stepping in place on 1 and put the left foot in front of the right on 2, keeping your weight on the ball of the right foot and coiling your upper body to the left) even when you are only doing a double turn."

u know wat guys.. i was able to do the double right turn last friday by studyin various videos available on the net. yay! i got so excited. of course there's much to be polished.. but *again* thanks for breakin down the footwork again MacMoto.. with your description.. i better understand if i'm doin the right thing. =)


"Are you still going to classes? A good teacher can help you with these techniques. Practising with a partner is good, but remember that he doesn't necessarily know what the follower should be doing"

have stopped classes since my last beginner part 1 class <sheepish> but have signed up for a upcomin salsa intermediate class end february (whoh still a month to wait). sure hope to tap on the instructor's help when i start class.. meanwhile.. i think i've learnt heaps from videos.. readin up on salsa and puttin theory to practice.

thanks again guys! sorry for the super super long post! =P

warmest regards.. ting

[SDsalsaguy]

Glad to hear everything's been going so well tingteo! :D

[MacMoto]

Hi Tingteo,

Tips for travelling turns with small steps -- keep your thighs together. There's a section in Edie's video where she shows how to practise this by holding a piece of paper between your thighs. The idea is to do the turns without dropping it. You can make it more exciting by using a bank note -- if you drop it, it's your partner's; if you don't, it's yours (not my idea -- Edie's!). It's actually a bit bothersome to stop in the middle of a cross body, stick the paper and do the turn, but once you've done it a couple of times and know what it feels like, you can practise just by feeling your thighs being together without the paper trick.

[salsachinita]

Hi Ting! A belated welcome form me!

Where are you in Aus? If you're in Melbourne, who are you taking classes from? I might be able to tell you who's spe******ed in what (teachingwise) so you can tailor it to your needs :wink: ....!

[salsadame]

Tips for travelling turns with small steps -- keep your thighs together. There's a section in Edie's video where she shows how to practise this by holding a piece of paper between your thighs. The idea is to do the turns without dropping it. You can make it more exciting by using a bank note -- if you drop it, it's your partner's; if you don't, it's yours (not my idea -- Edie's!). It's actually a bit bothersome to stop in the middle of a cross body, stick the paper and do the turn, but once you've done it a couple of times and know what it feels like, you can practise just by feeling your thighs being together without the paper trick.

oh cool macmoto! this is real neat!! thanks for lettin me in on that! <grin>


Where are you in Aus? If you're in Melbourne, who are you taking classes from? I might be able to tell you who's spe******ed in what (teachingwise) so you can tailor it to your needs ....!

hi salsachinita.. thanks for the welcome. =) i was in melbourne for 4 years previously.. but am back in my hometown now (singapore). regretted not startin salsa earlier! ahh well.. but as the sayin goes.. better late then never ayee.... hahaa...

btw guys.. u may address me as TING (teo is my last name). =)

[LiviaN]

I'm a beginner and in the middle, I just need to learn more turns and more moves. How about ya'll? :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the Salsa Forums LiviaN! :D

[peachexploration]

Hi LiviaN. Welcome. Happy to have you here. :)

[salsadame]

hi livian. glad to have u join us.

as a beginner myself.. i find (observed) that it is very important to spot well.. and be able to execute simple stylyin for our basic steps. reckon that this is more important then havin a whole bank of knowledge on complicated moves / turns. especially in the first few months of us doin salsa.. cuz this is when we are buildin our habits / style.

if you have been observin the better salseras.. their eyes are always on their partner and they spot well. as a beginner.. i sometimes fail to spot and will have to constantly remind myself to spot so that i look good / not loose balance too. haha.

also to add.. i find it helpful to practice leg styling at home when there is no partner to practice with. <grin> i dance on1. doin your basic steps with a tap on your 4 and 8 looks nice as well. reckon it adds flare to the salsera's style.. makes her pleasin to watch on the dance floor.

my 2 cents.. =)

[KenshinChan]

Hi.

I'm a beginner in salsa, and have been taking class for 3 months.
I learn a lot outside the class by reading you guys' messages here.

After reading this thread, I realized what I've been doing when I turn a woman (left or right) is actually make her do a three step walk around.
I didnt know the difference between spin and turn.

Now I think for spin, you do the go around in one count as opposed to three counts for turn, am I right? Does the spin have to start at count 5?


Another thing I'm curious about is, for a guy part, how to differentiate between signal a lady to spin and signal her to turn? Is it up to the lady to do it in walk-walk-walk or spin-walk-walk?


Thanks much
Kenchin

[peachexploration]

Hi.

I'm a beginner in salsa, and have been taking class for 3 months.
I learn a lot outside the class by reading you guys' messages here.

After reading this thread, I realized what I've been doing when I turn a woman (left or right) is actually make her do a three step walk around.
I didnt know the difference between spin and turn. That's awesome, KenshinChan. I'm so glad! :)

Now I think for spin, you do the go around in one count as opposed to three counts for turn, am I right? Does the spin have to start at count 5?If you're dancing On1, most turns prep on the 4 and start on the 5 if I'm not mistaken. Any instructors out there?

Another thing I'm curious about is, for a guy part, how to differentiate between signal a lady to spin and signal her to turn? Is it up to the lady to do it in walk-walk-walk or spin-walk-walk? A couple of things come to mind is the added pressure for the spin and the lead using the halo effect above the follows head. Again, any instructors out there? ;) :lol:

Also, any other lead perspectives that would like to chime in? :)

Welcome KenshinChan! :banana:

[KenshinChan]

Thanks PeachExploration.
Putting more pressure in hand makes sense, I'll try that next time on the dance floor.
:)

[WilliEL]

Wife and I are taking salsa lessons at the local university. This is the first time salsa is being taught at the univeristy. And there are no professional lessons to be had within 150 miles of where I live. So we are lucky to be having any salsa lessons at all.

However, it drives me nuts that we are not taught to dance with the music. I am a musician and I know where the beats are but our teacher blithely ignores the beats and just slams out all these smooth and complicated moves with no relation with the music. Well maybe he can get away with it, but most of the student couples are out there on the dance floor, doing their moves but totally out of sync with the music - some faster, some slower but practically no one with the music.

Is this a common occurence?

To be honest, I/we have learned a lot from our teacher but I do get a little frustrated when no one pays attention to what is playing!

What is your opinion on this? Do people think it is important to dance with the music in salsa? Or ignore it and use it as only background.

[peachexploration]

[Warning:Rant to begin in 5...4..3..2....]
Grrrrr!!! :evil: This aggravates me to no end. Unfortunately, WilliEL this happens more than I care to admit and was one of the reasons I stopped taking classes in my area. :roll: To me, in a sense, the students reflect the instructor. If the instructor is not putting emphasis on/teaching the most basic point of a dance (Rhythm and timing) that comes from the music of Salsa itself, then the students are definitely not going to think it's important and it will show on the dance floor. Salsa is NOT a series of patterns as alot of people my choose to believe but unfortunately, and this is just my opinion, that's what is thrown at them by so called instructors! :evil: [End Rant]

Okay, I'm calm now.... :P I can't stress this enough. I'm not an instructor but this is an extreme pet peeve of mine. To me, the most important thing a beginning Salser@ can learn is that Rhythm and Timing is THE most important foundation because of where Salsa dancing begins. The Music....

My hat off to you. :notworthy: A pleasure to have people like you on the dance floor who actually care about being a good dancer. :) :) Okay, I've said enough. Stepping away from the keyboard now. :P
Anyone else?

[squirrel]

I fully agree, peach... I also care about it and whe I teach I always warn my students not to go off beat... :evil: Hate to see those who don't give a flying sh*t about beat and timing!

[WilliEL]

Peach -

Thank you so much for your rant. I enjoyed it! Squirrel - Thanks for dittoing Peach. I'm glad to hear that you hard core salseras/os are sensitive to the rhythms being laid down. Man, that's where the whole impetus for moving your body comes from - the music.

I guess if I was teaching, I would spend some time having students just listening to the music. Getting them to hear 4 beats - and the real keen ones, getting them to hear the clave. It is beautifully complex music with many layers. I love it! I think you miss something, not hearing those multi-layers interacting!

Keep on, keep on -

[smoothnstylin]

Hello, I'm definately a newbie....

I stumbled on this forum looking for salsa music. I had no previous experience in salsa but a few months ago Ive took a light dance class. We're goin on the 2nd semester... took intermediate first and currently going over beginners. I was soo lost the first class of intermediate... they started off with CBL and some spins off the bat. I did pick it up quickly thank god lol.

I know a few nice moves now but noticed I had a hard time leading (they never really teach you that either)... it gets discouraging when you know you can do something but can't get yourself to do it. It's like your body rejects it and it's no wonder you and your partner just feel awkward. I read some of the forum topics about leading / dancing ettiquete / how to improve your dancing. I can't wait to "sike" myself up the next time I go dancing. I just want to get better.

My whole goal is just to be confident with myself and be good at a few moves before learning new ones. I've experienced the advantage of being confident in yourself and it makes you feel so good.... impressing the / flirting with the women is a big plus for me hehe.

Anyway thanks for having a site like this... definately gonna see me around learning and sharing.

-Mike

[peachexploration]

Welcome Smoothnstylin! First of all, that is totally awesome that you were up able to pick it up so quickly particularly after skipping the beginners class. :cheers: We have a variety of levels here. From instructors to beginners so if you need help with anything, just ask away! Again, welcome. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Ditto everything Peach said! Welcome to the Salsa Forums smoothnstylin! :D

[salsadame]

hi guys! question from me again. :D

would you advise us salseras to *just follow* the lead of a beginner
salsero despite knowin that his timin is way off the music played.
BUT you know exactly what he wants to do? (meaning.. it is obvious
when a guy wants you to do a Right Turn or CBL isn't it.)

the problem lies here: he trys to turn you on the 3 or pull you across
the CBL on the 3. btw just a reminder again. i dance on1.

many times i seem to be *not* followin his lead and makin him look bad
when i'm seen steppin back to position on 3 but he's tryin to pull me
forward or turnin me when he should actually be turnin / CBLing me on
the 5. i'm a musician as well and he is not.. tat is a followup on the
past few posts. so i'm wonderin.. will he benefit in learnin how to do
it right by me strictly followin and doin what i know is right.. or do
i just follow his lead and go way off the music beats? i read in some
other posts that the salseras should not do anything if she does not
feel the lead. but this is a different thing altogether.. or so i reckon?

btw.. i do not have this issue with the intermediate salseros of course. <grin>

[peachexploration]

....many times i seem to be *not* followin his lead and makin him look bad when i'm seen steppin back to position on 3 but he's tryin to pull me forward or turnin me when he should actually be turnin / CBLing me on the 5. i'm a musician as well and he is not.. tat is a followup on the past few posts. so i'm wonderin.. will he benefit in learnin how to do it right by me strictly followin and doin what i know is right.. or do i just follow his lead and go way off the music beats? i read in some
other posts that the salseras should not do anything if she does not
feel the lead. but this is a different thing altogether.. or so i reckon?

btw.. i do not have this issue with the intermediate salseros of course. <grin>

Hi Ting. :) As much as I am a stickler for rhythm and timing, I feel that if it's at a club or in a social setting, it is better if you wait until he asks/solicits advice otherwise follow the best you can for the remainder of the song. If you're in a class setting, I would suggest you let the instructor correct the lead. Maybe asks the instructor in a nice way, "Could you show us this step again? Just want to make sure I understand the counts for this step." Or something along those lines.

If you have a good rapport with a lead, i.e. fellow class mate or friend, there are hints you can give without really backleading or creating tension while you're dancing. But remember, for a beginning lead salsero, at first, it's very hard to grasp everything at once. They have to:
Initiate the moves
Think about the music
Stay on beat
Think about the music
Watch out for dance floor collisions
Think about the music
Keep the moves fluid and working together
Think about the music
Think of the next move before the last one begins
Think about the music
Allow the follow to show their talents
Think about the music.
Play traffic cop on the dance floor
And through all of this, enjoy himself as well
Talk about multitasking! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hope this helps. :)

[peachexploration]

:oops: :oops: Almost forgot. Here's another thread that might help as well :arrow: Partner Learning Curve (http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=212&highlight=learning+curve) :D

[Rosa]

Ting. :) As much as I am a stickler for rhythm and timing, I feel that if it's at a club or in a social setting, it is better if you wait until he asks/solicits advice otherwise follow the best you can for the remainder of the song. If you're in a class setting, I would suggest you let the instructor correct the lead. Maybe asks the instructor, "Could you show us this step again? Just want to make sure I understand the counts for this step." Or something along those lines.

I couldn't agree more. I have had it drummed into me by my teacher that if the leader doesn't lead the move, the follower doesn't do it. As you say, peachexploration, in class you can always ask the teacher for advice. But in a club or a social setting, what I have been taught over and over again is ... if they ain't leadin, you ain't followin! :twisted: :cry:

Rosa :)

[salsadame]

heyos! thanks for the replies! :D

otherwise follow the best you can for the remainder of the song
think i'm a bad follower? :? can't seem to make myself go off beat or just follow. it's like rhythm is ingrained in me that i tend to just dance to the music.. and then everything is way off with this friend of mine. argghh. he is a friend i hang out with often so we workin on improvin his lead.. so it's not a once off thingy. that i just finish the remainder of the song. hehe.


Maybe asks the instructor, "Could you show us this step again?
i'm not takin lessons with him. and he knows that he is supposed to turn us on the 5.. just that it's the rhythm thingy that can be the problem.


if they ain't leadin, you ain't followin!
well he is leadin in some way.. maybe i'm not followin? :P guess to round up. i just have to shake of the rhythmic side of me (well i'm a percussionist so rhythm is everything to me in music) and follow HIS steps and cut off the music mentally? i mean.. is this too big a compromise or wat.. mann i dunno.

my objective when i posted my question is that i do not want to jeoprdise his process of learnin salsa. he practise on me quite often if we go to the local social club. so err hmmm.. can anyone give a good advise on what i should do? to follow music or to follow lead so that in the long run he should improve? :D

-- TiNG --

[peachexploration]

....... i just have to shake of the rhythmic side of me (well i'm a percussionist so rhythm is everything to me in music) and follow HIS steps and cut off the music mentally? i mean.. is this too big a compromise or wat.. mann i dunno.

my objective when i posted my question is that i do not want to jeoprdise his process of learnin salsa. he practise on me quite often if we go to the local social club. so err hmmm.. can anyone give a good advise on what i should do? to follow music or to follow lead so that in the long run he should improve? :D

-- TiNG --Okay, I see. One suggestion that might help, particularly since you seem to have a good rapport with him and he seems to know of his rhythmic problem. May I suggest you talk to him about the percussion side things since you are a musician. He may be more receptive to idea since you have a musical point of view. Not on the dance floor though. Some time aside where is able to listen to what you're saying. You could break the music down for him. Talk about specifics and actually offer a few classes for him. Down beats, measures, clave, etc.. What do you think? :D

[salsadame]

i think it's a good idea. :D but i've already tried that over dinner some time ago.. or when we were havin a chat off the dance floor. <grin> but i guess it can be quite painful or difficult for some people to graps the musical side of things. and from the conversations i have with him.. i think he finds it difficult puttin in effort in the musical aspect of things cuz it's added stress to learnin salsa and i can empathize with that.

nothin else i can do? :cry: so back to the question. any chance that i can help him improve his awareness to the music if i adapt the rule of the thumb of followin the music? or would you guys advise me to follow his footwork timing in order for him to improve his lead first?

guess these 2 options concerns me alot.. to follow music or not to? cuz i am unable to make a decision on this! and i think it's crucial for me to be clear on wat i should do. he is not the only beginner salsero that i've encountered the 'off music' experience. so in view that this situation is unavoidable.. i'm hopin you guys with heaps more salsa experience can help me make a good decision so that i have a general rule to follow when i encounter this with someone else. :)

-- TiNG --

[peachexploration]

.... i'm hopin you guys with heaps more salsa experience can help me make a good decision so that i have a general rule to follow when i encounter this with someone else. :)

-- TiNG --Okay, as a general rule you should follow the lead. Keep in mind, it's not just beginners with this problem. Rhythm and timing problems can be found from beginners to advanced dancers so again, as a general rule, the follow should always "follow" the lead.

[salsadame]

cool. point noted!! thanks peach. :D

[peachexploration]

Cool! 8) :)

[peachexploration]

......I guess if I was teaching, I would spend some time having students just listening to the music. Getting them to hear 4 beats - and the real keen ones, getting them to hear the clave.....

I totally agree WilliEL. I would do the same as well if I were an instructor. :)

[smoothnstylin]

:D
Hello all, last night I went to a Salsa Club in Philadelphia, PA called Brasils.... I wanted to scope the place out and get a feel for some salsa music. Even though I wanted to dance, I sat in awe and observed everyone else on the floor. The music was really fast paced at times and there were many dancers @ a higher level than me. There were only a few beginners but they looked like an item and kept to themselves. It was still pretty exciting and I was learning a lot of things. I was also trying to recognize the beat in the songs since no one taught me how.... haha at least I knew when a Bachata came on that it was the Bachata hehe ask me that a few weeks ago and I'd have no clue!

My question is:
How would you suggest to a newbie (me) to prep to even get good enough to dance in a place like that? Is it harder for a leader to go up in experience? It seems the newbie follower can just move where the experienced leader makes them and learn to dance really fast. I mentioned before all I've taken were a few beginner and intermediate courses.... the courses just taught us steps in a certain order but I'm beginning to recognize where I can break the routine and totally change it up.

Need Suggestions
Thanks
-Mike

[salsachinita]

.... the courses just taught us steps in a certain order but I'm beginning to recognize where I can break the routine and totally change it up.

:D Welcome to SF, Mike!

A big :notworthy: to your above statement!!!!!!! You may or may not realise it just now, but this mere recognition will eventually separate the great dancers from good dancers 8) .........

Be confident (without ego, there IS a difference) and totally open to learning every aspects of salsa. It WILL come together ;) .

[smoothnstylin]

Hey thanks for the warm welcome, kind words, and advice salsachinita! :D

I guess I'm gonna have to change the way I look @ things.... I have this distorted view of confidence as being cocky / having an ego from going out to regular bars and clubs the last few years. Of course a woman's response to that is of pure disgust, dancing or not. I try not to become these shining examples of the male species, so I've gotten rather passive... which doesn't help a leader at all, does it? lol

I'll keep it fun and try to be a little more dominating / confident / and open to learning the salsa, but no matter how great/good I'll get, I'll still be humble about it. ;)

[peachexploration]

Hi smoothnstylin! Welcome. :D

[smoothnstylin]

:D
thanks for welcoming me again peachE!

[vq352k]

Hello there :D

Lets see i have always like salsa music.... a few times i tried to dance it, but sadly failed over and over. this was years ago... it never really bother me that i didnt knwo how to dance it. Until last new years eve i went to a party with my g/f(she's viet) and they were playing salsa she didnt know how to dance it either, but my friends quickly showed her a few moves and there she was dancing....while i tried and failed failed over and over again....so n a scale from 0 to 10 im n -92389428349

I have been reading a lot in this forums and tried to check salsa-rhythms i got their first video, but never got the other six. What i pretty much want is to be able to dance salsa...i dont really need to be a pro like many of you, but just be able to dance it and have a good time. So what im pretty much asking for is what should my first steps be? buy a video? take classes? keep reading? i would much much rather do something where i didnt have to leave my house... so if you guys have any idea please let me know.....Thank you very very much for your time and advice :)

Peter

[peachexploration]

Hi Vq352k! Yippee! Another Salsero in the making. :banana: May I suggest that the best thing you can do is find out what is available in your area along with with your videos. It is important to get with real people (classes) and dance and also use the videos to supplement your dancing when you're not out on the dance floor. Both are important tools I think. Take a look at the Salsa schools in your area and see what's available. Also, forums like this one ;) are your best resource for finding out about the various styles, music, etc. Do lots and lots of research to help make sure that what you're learning is what you need. Important note: If you do find out that your preference is On1 and there are only On2 schools in your area, you will have a hard time dancing socially in the beginning so keep that in mind. When you do start classes, may I also suggest that you take a few private classes in the beginning. They are more expensive but are beneficial in the long run. More importantly, get out there and start dancing. :banana: Oh, and welcome to the SF family! :D Happy to have you here with us! :banana:

[smoothnstylin]

I've been going to plenty of socials and clubs in the area in the past 2 weeks. I had an eye opening experience yesterday.... I tried taking a lesson with a different instructor (Buster Adams, Philadelphia, PA) other than my normal group ballroom salsa class.

No one showed but he and his assistant went ahead and taught me anyway.... man did I feel like I didn't know anything! I guess I'm really shaky in my dancing skills. :(

I knew the way the moves are suppose to look and he knew I wasn't a beginner, but I was doing things wrong.... from my left/right turns.... my crossbody lead... inside/outside turns.... and even my basic!

Buster was patient and went over the mechanics and techniques of everything I mentioned. It started to fill the holes that were missing from my ballroom classes. He even explained the proper way to shift my weight to communicate where you want your follower to go and not to share your weight. Finally a lesson in leading a girl through the move, not just "going through motions".

I feel kind of discouraged because everything I learned in the past feels uncomfortable and I'm even more unsure of myself.... I'm still determined to get things right and become a better salsa dancer.

[peachexploration]

.....I feel kind of discouraged because everything I learned in the past feels uncomfortable and I'm even more unsure of myself.... I'm still determined to get things right and become a better salsa dancer.

Hi Smoothstylin. :D You know, my guess is that this was a different style of Salsa altogether. Ballroom Salsa is very different Street Salsa. As you've mentioned before, anywhere from move execution to technique. We all go through it and even if it was the same style, there will almost always be a difference if you just change instructors. Don't worry, we all go or have gone through it. That's why it's so important to dance with different dancers with different. It helps your journey. :) You have a good attitude about it though. Just keep at it. :D

[smoothnstylin]

Thanks peach,

I definately need the kind words to keep me goin.... and its great that have my ballroom / salsa friends to pick me up when I go through something like this to keep me persistent.

What would I do without you guys?
:D

[peachexploration]

No problem at all. Just remember we're always here for you!. :friend:

[salsachinita]

.......the proper way to shift my weight to communicate where you want your follower to go and not to share your weight. Finally a lesson in leading a girl through the move, not just "going through motions".

Firstly, smoothnstylin, let me congradulate you for finding a wonderful instructor who took the time to show you substance & technique, not merely moves. And to have a practically private session with him, no less....!

I feel kind of discouraged because everything I learned in the past feels uncomfortable and I'm even more unsure of myself.....

Please don't be.......what you are experiencing is perfectly healthy (and normal) in context of a learning curve. Be glad that this happens to you, as it WILL put you in a totally different league to those who have never had the opportunities for such lessons (yes, your feelings are priceless lessons, which will become your motivation ;) ).

[peachexploration]

Hi SC! Good to "see" you! :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Hi SC! Good to "see" you! :D
DITTO! :P :P :P

[Ms_Sunlight]

Since I'm a beginner I suppose this is where I should delurk. Hi everyone. I followed people over from Dance Forums!

Three group classes so far and I'm having a great time! I only wish I had more opportunity to practice with other people outside of the class environment. The better dancers are so intimidating! The husband and I have sworn that by the end of a month, we're going to start getting up together and dancing even if it's only to mambo step through a slow song. Maybe it'll encourage others, maybe we'll just look like a pair of lemons, we'll see!

Anyway I have a wee question:

At the class last Thursday there was a man there who seemed to be better than the others, I suspect that he was joining in to help address the female / male imbalance. (The night continues as a dance club so people do turn up who aren't in the lessons, which is cool. It's a good atmosphere there.) He seemed to be very confident and he had a good feel for the music but I couldn't read his leads at all and he ended up telling me (politely) when to turn -- we were practicing simple turns.

It didn't feel right and I just tried to concentrate on doing my steps and working with the music as well as I could between the turns. Is there any polite way to tell someone that you're not very good and maybe if they want you to turn, they should make their physical lead more exaggerated and obvious? I want to be a good follower but I can't follow what I can't follow, if you see what I mean!

How should this situation have panned out?

[peachexploration]

Hi Ms_Sunlight. :D Ugh! I find that so annoying when people do that in class. It's like they've had two classes and are now experts. :roll: But there is this one tactic that I use most of the time and it seems to work. When a person in class consistantly wants to correct me and they are not an instructor, I say nicely to my partner at the time something like, "I'm sorry, I'm obviously having a little trouble, let me called the INSTRUCTOR over so that they can help me correct the problem".

I think its rude for people to do that. No one should offer instruction in class unless they are instructors themselves or it is asked. Even then, you should be careful and limited in your response in my opinion.

Again, welcome Ms_Sunlight. :)

[Ms_Sunlight]

I think its rude for people to do that. No one should offer instruction in class unless they are instructors themselves or it is asked. Even then, you should be careful and limited in your response in my opinion.


That's cool. We change partners often enough that even if he's there every week I'll have plenty of opportunity to dance with people who do leads that I can "hear" if you know what I mean.

I have given people feedback but only of the "woo, we are so getting this!" kind. It's never wrong to be nice about people's abilities is it?

[peachexploration]

...It's never wrong to be nice about people's abilities is it?No, it's not wrong at all however when it's unsolicited or because of one's arrogance, that when it's not so good. As long as you and your partner are okay with it, it's fine. :)

[Miami Rueda dancer]

anyone close to Intermidiate levels or in high beginners? :) I'm happy now I get to learn (gasp) el Dedo

[peachexploration]

That's a fun one, MRD. Now the moves are starting to get interesting as you get closer to advanced. :)

[byte1]

Hi all,
Just started learning Salsa. I am beginning to get the moves but have a hard time trying to figure out when to start and the timing. I have never heard much Salsa before and it is a little different.
Are there a few songs that are played in the clubs a lot that someone can list? I want to get these and practice timing on these so I get some courage to get out on the floor and try some basic stuff. I get this feeling unless I get some confidence in this dept. I will take classes but never make it to the floor at a club. :)
Also Is anyone form Austin on this forum? If so do you have any clubs you prefer over the others?

[peachexploration]

Hi Byte1. Welcome to Salsa Forums. Happy to have you here. :D
Take a look at this thread :arrow: Salsa Music for Beginners (http://salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2717#2717) Keep checking back on that thread as I know others will be adding more soon. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Hi Byte1. Welcome to Salsa Forums. Happy to have you here. :D
Ditto! :D

[byte1]

Thanks for the welcomes and the quick responses. Will keep checking the forums.

[salsachinita]

Anyway I have a wee question:

Is there any polite way to tell someone that you're not very good and maybe if they want you to turn, they should make their physical lead more exaggerated and obvious? I want to be a good follower but I can't follow what I can't follow, if you see what I mean!

How should this situation have panned out?

Welcome, Ms Sunlight!

I used to be in your situation, having been accustomed to heavier leads for years (dancing exclusively with one or two leads :roll: ), I could not feel most of the recent leads (whose signals tend to be relatively softer).

I simply told them that I needed stronger leads, as I was unfamiliar with the moves. The emphasis is on myself needing help, rather than demanding improvement from them.

Most people were more than happy to oblige :D , I found.

It didn't take long for me to get used to softer leads, after dancing with a wide variety of people (from all levels/styles/schools/backgrounds).

Aside from asking for help, dancing with variety of people REALLY helps!

[peachexploration]

.....Anyway I have a wee question:

At the class last Thursday there was a man there who seemed to be better than the others, I suspect that he was joining in to help address the female / male imbalance. (The night continues as a dance club so people do turn up who aren't in the lessons, which is cool. It's a good atmosphere there.) He seemed to be very confident and he had a good feel for the music but I couldn't read his leads at all and he ended up telling me (politely) when to turn -- we were practicing simple turns.

It didn't feel right and I just tried to concentrate on doing my steps and working with the music as well as I could between the turns. Is there any polite way to tell someone that you're not very good and maybe if they want you to turn, they should make their physical lead more exaggerated and obvious? I want to be a good follower but I can't follow what I can't follow, if you see what I mean!

How should this situation have panned out?

You know what Ms_Sunlight? I need to apologize to you for my above post regarding your question. I thought you meant originally that the guy was being rude to you but when I put my glasses on and re-read your post, :lol: :lol: I found that it wasn't what you meant. Please accept my apologies. :) SalsaChinita has the "better" answer for you. ;) :D

[Ms_Sunlight]

I simply told them that I needed stronger leads, as I was unfamiliar with the moves. The emphasis is on myself needing help, rather than demanding improvement from them.


Thank you for the advice!

Believe me, I will do my best to dance with AS MANY MEN AS POSSIBLE :D :D :D

[byte1]

Is back rock the same as position breaks? Are there different types?

[peachexploration]

Is back rock the same as position breaks? Are there different types?Don't think so Byte1. Any instructors out there that would like to explain this one?

[Miami Rueda dancer]

ooo!! pick me!!! ok.

byte 1, back rocks is simply turning at an angle.

1. your right foot stays foward, you step back with your left foot so that you and your foot twist to one side.

2. do the same with your left foot foward. :D

[vin]

bump

[manitasmonas]

How do you know if you're dancing on 1 or 2? I've had no instruction. I just start when I feel it. KWIM? Does that mean I dance on 1? Is dancing on 2 harder to feel?

[Guarachero]

How do you know if you're dancing on 1 or 2? I've had no instruction. I just start when I feel it. KWIM? Does that mean I dance on 1? Is dancing on 2 harder to feel?

ManitasMonas:

Please don't mind much attention to timing and levels if you don't have an instructor right now. That will only stay between you and Salsa. If you feel the music, go for it.

Take it from me, I never heard such a 1-2 business until I came to the US. So far I have not found a Salsa angel dearing enough to tell me I need to know that.

Guarachero

[jimedoc]

That is so true Guarachero. I have been dancing Salsa for almost all my life and i had never hear about on1 or on2 until this year that the concept came to Chile
ManitasMonas: Just dance with the music (i mean, when you think you had to do it) and you'll be fine

[peachexploration]

How do you know if you're dancing on 1 or 2? I've had no instruction. I just start when I feel it. KWIM? Does that mean I dance on 1? Is dancing on 2 harder to feel?

MM, when we speak of On1, On2 or On3, we are referring to what beat we are stepping predominately when we are dancing. Salsa music is played in 4/4 time, has 4 beats within 2 measures, so we count 8 beats 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

If you're Predominately hitting the 1 and 5 beats for turns, Cross body leads, etc. you're dancing on1. The best way to find out is to count out loud to yourself. Check out the video section and watch the dancers movement as it relates to count of the music. Concentrate on their feet. When they are stepping, count out loud along with the music. I personally don't think either is more difficult other than to say this: If you've learned On2 first and now need to learn On1 or vice-versa, you will have a period of adjustment before the timing dynamics set in.

Also, take a look at SalsaRythms website: salsa-rhythms.com/salsa-dancing-lesson.htm :)

[Miami Rueda dancer]

I like to count my beats so I don't get lost as.... 1,2,3, ----- 4,5,6 there is always a pause in between for me :P

[Guarachero]

I like to count my beats so I don't get lost as.... 1,2,3, ----- 4,5,6 there is always a pause in between for me :P

I still don't get it. You’re either mathematical or rhythmical. If you need to count your beats, you’re still learning. How many years have you being a Salsero?

[Miami Rueda dancer]

hehehe... 3 months :) I'm in Intermidiate II I have alot to learn still though, you're right.

[Guarachero]

hehehe... 3 months :) I'm in Intermidiate II I have alot to learn still though, you're right.

But you're doing well. And you may not have to be a Salsero for 40+ years like me to be a true Casinero. :cheers:

[Miami Rueda dancer]

hehehe... 3 months :) I'm in Intermidiate II I have alot to learn still though, you're right.

40+ years like me to be a true Casinero. :cheers:

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Guarachero]

You probably can say more with your feet. I'm sure of that :applause:

[Miami Rueda dancer]

hey Guarachero are you part of salsapower.com like me? ;) There's alot more people here than over there :D

[Guarachero]

hey Guarachero are you part of salsapower.com like me? ;) There's alot more people here than over there :D

Yes Miami Rueda. I am there, but I'm more here than there

[Miami Rueda dancer]

ok cool :) we need smart experienced dancers to help us out 8)

[Guarachero]

ok cool :) we need smart experienced dancers to help us out 8)

Thanks, Miami Rueda.

I don't know about smart, just a regular guy.

And I don't think you need help. Experience comes with the amount of practice you do. If I had danced just on the week ends only, I would not be today where I'm at in Salsa. I dance just about every evening either with my wife or by myself. In my collectible videos, I watch how Beny Moré moves his feet and how the legendary Vacallao moves, or how Tintán (Resorte) dances Mambo.

Not all I do is authored by me, some of my moves are older than me, I just put my own feelings to it and raise the bar to today's fashion.

Guarachero

[peachexploration]

Just a little note of encouragement for all beginners. I've had a few years of Salsa classes under my belt and as some of you may know, I've started classes again. I am a total beginner in my On2 classes and I love it. You know why? I get to "learn", "absorb" and accept a new way of interpreting the "dance". So, if you're frustrated about being a beginner, don't be as long as you have a great instructor. The labels in Salsa mean nothing, really. At least not to me. I'm just saying that the more you get stuck on the name or label of "beginner", the more frustrated you will be and when that happens, it may hinder progression anyway. So keep your chin up and keep in mind that because Salsa is such a creative dance, you'll always be a beginner. ;) :D

[hopelessly_addicted]

So keep your chin up and keep in mind that because Salsa is such a creative dance, you'll always be a beginner. ;) :D

Heya Peache! That's an interesting concept :) Yeah I agree with you whole-heartedly. There's always more to learn. And you know how it goes. The more you learn, the more you realise how much more there is to learn!

[peachexploration]

...The more you learn, the more you realise how much more there is to learn!

Very true, HA. :)

[Mistica]

Just peekig in to say Hi. I'm a newbie, sorta...started Salsa about 5 months ago. I have had a break the last month, but will soon be taking lessons again. :D Dancing has always been a passion of mine and Salsa is new to me...but I LOVE IT!!

[peachexploration]

Hi Mistica, Welcome to Salsa Forums. Happy to welcome you in the family!! :D

[pr]

Hi Mistica, Welcome to Salsa Forums. Happy to welcome you in the family!! :D
Ditto! :D

[lotitok]

i m new!! hhehe I m in Singapore!! Started Salsa 3 months ago n totally addicted to it!!! :) :P

[DeeplyDippy]

Hi Lotitok :D

Where do you dance in Singapore - are the Xenbar and Union Square still open ?

[SDsalsaguy]

Welcome to the SF lotitok! :D

[lotitok]

Hi Lotitok :D

Where do you dance in Singapore - are the Xenbar and Union Square still open ?

Hi there!! Xenbar n Union Sq are still open!! Xenbar has lost its shine while Union Sq is getting too crowded to dance during weekends! :D

[peachexploration]

Hi Lotitok! Welcome to Salsa Forums. :)

[kdogg]

http://www.dancefreak.com/stories/images/learning_curve.jpg

Since I just posted this on another thread I thought I'd be helpful here.

I don't think I completely agree with the learning curve, especially the plateau region for the females. I don't see why the ladies' learning curve can't be exponential. More elaboration is needed than just the curves.

[pr]

Welcome to the SF lotitok! :D
Ditto!!! :D

[lotitok]

Hi Lotitok! Welcome to Salsa Forums. :)

heeh thanks thanks!! :) :) :)

[Orion]

i saw the conversation of hoplesly and peach that was about dancing on 1 or 2 HA you said you start dancing when you feel you should start, thats dancing on 1

dancing on 1:
1-2-3 Pause 5-6-7 or 1-2-3 pause 4-5-6 with the accent on 1 (left foot male right foot female on 1)

Dancing on 2:
2-3 pause 5-6-7 pause 1 (just keep counting this or it will make no sence at all :D) with the accent on 2 (left foot male right foot female on 2)
so it is for the male left front on 2, right back on 3, pause left back on 5, right back on 6, left front on7 pause right front on 1 dancing on 2 is the same patern as dancing on 1 always front, back, back, back, front, front.

i hope this will help a bit :D

[esa negrita...]

Hi Everybody! I'm a newbie and I'm still having a hard time finding a consistant partner to work with. I've been learning from a guy at the club I go to, but with me at 6' in flats (6'2" in my shoes) and him at about 5'6", he's started to complain, albeit jokingly, about having to jump to spin me. Basically, I'm looking for a DVD that will help me learn my basics well. I've used "The Quick and Dirty Guide to Salsa", but I came out of it not knowing what a cross body lead was, or the difference between turns and spins. So...basically, I'm looking for a DVD that will help me learn the basics for FREESTYLE dancing, so that I can respond properly to a good lead and not just learn a routine with a partner. Thanks!

[memphis salsero]

Maybe I shouldn't admit this but I've seen a good bit of ladies styling dvds so I could teach a couple girls proper technique and as far as just the way you hold yourself and your presence on the dance floor Josie Neglia's beginner ladies styling cd is awesome, I wish some more advanced girls I know would watch that one. As far as learning how to follow well, Edie Espinoza's ladies styling volume one has some great tips, but I really think to learn how to follow well the best way to learn is to take a private, or atleast practice with a guy who has learned how to be a good follower, oh and dance as much as possible (yea i know that is a tough one :lol: )

[Karlita]

Hey everybody! I'm a new girl here! I really love this forum already! I just discovered it yesterday. I'm a bit overwhelmed though with all the terminology I'm going to have to learn to communicate with true salseros. I'm taking salsa lessons. I took them for a while in Domincan Republic. That teacher studied in New York. Now I'm in North Carolina and taking lessons from an Ecuadorian who studied in Florida. I get confused because they have different starting dance positions. The teacher who studied in NY taught me to start with my left foot forward, but my teacher now has starting position as feet together. Who is correct?

[pr]

Hey everybody! I'm a new girl here! I really love this forum already! I just discovered it yesterday.
Hi Karlita, welcome to Salsa Forums!! :D :D Glad you like it! :D

[Karlita]

thanx! Glad to be here! Just trying to get the hang of the boards still, but it makes for some very interesting reading!

[peachexploration]

Happy to have you here, Karlita. :D

[Karlita]

Thanx peach! Um, do you know the answer to my question earlier in this thread by any chance?

[peachexploration]

..... The teacher who studied in NY taught me to start with my left foot forward, but my teacher now has starting position as feet together. Who is correct?Probably both are correct. It depends on what style you are learning. For us to make an assessment of your technical question, we will need to know definitely what style you are learning. :)

[Karlita]

Well, I think I've figured out the reason for the difference. The teacher from Dominican had studied in NY. I'm pretty sure he danced On2. And my teacher now breaks On1. So maybe the On2 teacher found it easier to begin with starting position as your left foot forward so that then we could step back and then immediately break on the 2. just a guess. I am a newbie after all.... :)

[HothouseSalsero]

[deleted by poster]

[oreo]

Hi,

I have just taken my 4th salsa rueda group class, and had a bad experience. I had a 1 month break since the previous class and had a hard time remembering a step (which was to follow the new step being taught) in the beginning of the class. This pretty much made the instructor upset, and when i asked if she could show how to do both moves together for me, she refused. Also, in my previous classes, the instructors always called the moves outloud, whereas this instructor used the signs. As I did not know the signs for all moves, I missed some steps during the rest of the class even if i knew the move. The instructor gave me sad looks the whole class and at the end she told me that I needed go back to class #1. Now I do agree that I need much practice, especially as a newbie trying to get the basics down. However, I have been passed the previous classes by instructors who work at the same place, and actually have been praised by my last instructor before her. I plan to repeat the previous class as much as it takes to make sure i have everything down, but I am very discouraged by this whole event. I am trying to look at it from her point of view, and do not understand a beginner level instructor being openly frustrated. How do people deal with these situations? Although teachers rotate amongst classes, I am sure I will have this instructor once again. I can only go once a week so I can't avoid her unless I skip the whole week. Is it worth dealing with this instructor again? I'm doing this because i want to learn and have fun, not to feel bitter about it, so any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[Jones, Nikka]

Hi,

I have just taken my 4th salsa rueda group class, and had a bad experience. I had a 1 month break since the previous class and had a hard time remembering a step... This pretty much made the instructor upset, and when i asked if she could show how to do both moves together for me, she refused... The instructor gave me sad looks the whole class and at the end she told me that I needed go back to class #1. Now I do agree that I need much practice, especially as a newbie trying to get the basics down. However, I have been passed the previous classes by instructors who work at the same place, and actually have been praised by my last instructor before her. I plan to repeat the previous class as much as it takes to make sure i have everything down, but I am very discouraged by this whole event. I am trying to look at it from her point of view, and do not understand a beginner level instructor being openly frustrated. How do people deal with these situations? ... Is it worth dealing with this instructor again? I'm doing this because i want to learn and have fun, not to feel bitter about it, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

The first thing to do would be to talk to that instructor's supervisor and ask:

Why were you allowed to take the fourth class after a month's break without being ofered a catch-up class? Do they keep track of student's atendance? Was it announced at the beginning of the course that after the 3rd class only signs would be used?
Most important: Is it possible for her supervisor to make her aware of the fact that you were humilliated in class in front of everyone else?

If you get satisfactory answers to these questions, go right ahead, stick with the class. If not, find another, more professional school. Remember that you are the client and if your goal is to learn and have fun, you do not need to belong to a boot-camp style class.

Personally I feel a teacher's job is to encourage us students. Heaven knows that we already do a great job of discouraging ourselves on our own. That person doe not even sound like a teacher. She is probably someone who dances well and figures teaching is a good way to make an extra buck. A real teacher keeps her students feeling positive and motivated.

[praecantricis]

Oreo, I'm really sorry that you've had a bad experience. My gut reaction would be find a different school - you should be comforable wherever you learn. Perhaps if you're not going to be able to go each and every week (let's face it few of us can!) perhaps find a class which is less regimented so missing a week doesn't matter.

[JazzHands]

Sounds like a lousy place to learn salsa.

I've had an experience in the past of an instructor being unkind to me. I didn't ever bother going back to that class again. I suggest that you do the same.

Unless you live in the middle of nowhere I doubt that you will have any difficulty finding another class, and I'm sure that the instructor there will welcome you with open arms.

[esa negrita...]

I'm a firm believer in knowing how you learn and knowing how to express it in any venue. You're paying for these classes and really should let the instructor know what's not helping you. Since she seems willing to critique you in front of the class, I'd do the same...not rudely, but just expressing your concerns and explaining what you need. I think instructors tend to forget that everybody learns differently. If she continues...go to management and then...well...make your way out.

I really do think you should say something though...who knows how many people are thinking the same thing but just aren't brave enough tos ay anything or aren't even able to identify it.

[HailMary]

Thanks for the excellent forum, y'all.

[peachexploration]

Thanks for the excellent forum, y'all. :D :D :D :D :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Thanks for the excellent forum, y'all. :D :D :D :D :D
Ditto!!!!

[pr]

Thanks for the excellent forum, y'all. :D :D :D :D :D
Ditto!!!!
Tritto!!! :D :D

[PielCanela]

Thanks for the excellent forum, y'all. :D :D :D :D :D
Ditto!!!!
Tritto!!! :D :D

fortito ... ha ha ha

[BxDivaGyrl]

Just wanted to say hello to all of ya'll. I'm a beginner intermediate-LOL. Taken some dance lessons before and now starting again in a beginner class (which right now seems a little slow, but I'll get through it).

Hello everyone!

[pr]

Just wanted to say hello to all of ya'll. I'm a beginner intermediate-LOL. Taken some dance lessons before and now starting again in a beginner class (which right now seems a little slow, but I'll get through it).

Hello everyone!
Hi BxDivaGyrl! :) And welcome to Salsa Forums! :D

[giglet]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here to these forums. I've been dancing Salsa for about 3-4 months now and go about 3 times a week.
I do lessons once a week and freestyle at the clubs the rest of the time.
I have to admit i'm totally hooked now. And although i'd say i'm beginner-intermediate... i am clueless as to how i class myself. I dance better with some people than others.

There's a few things i need to brush up on i think though, such as my tension in my arms. Some leads say it's fine, some say it's too floppy, and others say it's too tense. Maybe i just have to learn to ajust to different leads. Who knows. one of my teachers said it was fine when i danced with him so... we'll see how that goes.

Another thing is my inside turns are a little wobbly, they never used to be so i believe i am starting to do something wrong. Tomorrow when i go for my lesson i'll try very hard to specifically concentrate on this.

I've met some wonderful people through salsa so far and i love my new obsession (yes i'll call it that right now.. and proud) and i love learning new things. Only recently learnt the basic bachata and merengue steps.
So i can't wait to try those out more.

I wish i'd learnt this YEARS ago... i'm only 22 now but i wish i'd started when i was in my teens.
I'm too impatient sometimes, thats my problem. But i'm not afraid to make mistakes. Thats how i learn.

Nice to meet you all. Have read quite a few topics so i'll try and jump in where i feel my input might be appreciated :lol:
~giglet~

[DeeplyDippy]

Welcome to SF, Giglet :D

It sounds like you have a great attitude to learning - I'm sure you're going to leap ahead !

Where in the UK do you dance ?

[giglet]

DeeplyDippy,
I'm in Birmingham right now. And although i'm new i feel the club scene is bigger than i expected.
There's different places every day of the week, i havn't even been to them all yet. And so far everyone is really kind and nice. Everyone has been willing to help me out if i am stuck with something.
I already recognize lots of people, and i am not afraid to ask guys to dance, which helps.

Nice to meet you.
~Giglet~

[pr]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here to these forums.
Hi and welcome Giglet! :D

[PielCanela]

welcome Giglet! ;)

[Terremoto]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here to these forums.
Hi and welcome Giglet! :D

Ditto.

[mambonewb]

Welcome giglet! ;)

Glad to hear you're enjoying your growing passion for Salsa dancing. Masaya naman, yes?

[cjb]

I'm in Birmingham right now. And although i'm new i feel the club scene is bigger than i expected.

Let me take a moment to pimp Gary Thomas and Mel C to you. Great dancers and solid teachers. Gary is also very good on the music side.

Also, if you live in Birmingham, you must get yourslef to Salsology in Manchester. Next one is March 10th. Look at salsology.com. Best regular night in the UK, IMHO - I'll be travelling up from London for it!

[giglet]

thanks for that. I'll certainly check it out.
~Giglet~

[DancingDiva]

Hello! I'm so glad that I stumbled on this site! I’m a first-time poster and I’m hoping you can help solve this mystery and give me your knowledgeable opinion.

I’ve taken 20 weeks from what I’ve been told is Cuban Salsa at a community center in Montreal. My instructor is Cuban and only moved to the city a few years ago. As the basic step, the salsa he taught was strictly a back step, dancing on the 1, in a 123_567_ manner. Partners turn in a circular fashion, with a lot of intricate pretzel-like turn patterns (I’ve learned up to 13 turns so far), which apparently are also related to Casino Rueda.

My problem is the classes have ended with no possibility of any advanced or styling classes (he’s basically taught us most of what he knows) and to my horror I can’t seem to find another school that teaches this style in Montreal. Most of the places that I’ve contacted teach LA / NY style. In addition to this, the only school that I did manage to find, which said it taught Cuban salsa, told me what I was dancing wasn’t Cuban at all, after I demonstrated my basic steps! I am so discouraged I don’t know what to do!

Here are my questions:
1. If this isn’t Cuban salsa then what the heck am I dancing? My instructor said he learned salsa taking his lessons in Cuba. One would think that would mean he’s teaching Cuban Salsa but hey, who knows! I’ve been online trying to do some research trying to find video clips exhibiting the various styles and I found this clip of my basic step:
salsa-merengue.co.uk/Videos/Salone/BBdetail.mpg

2. Learning what style I’m dancing is only solving one part of the issue- if I can’t practice (and advance) with this particular style in Montreal- I’ve got another problem! It would be disappointing to abandon all that I have learned so far and start from scratch again (all the weeks of getting my arms twisted out of my sockets during practice has gotta count for something, LOL!) However, if I have to switch to one of the more popular styles (at least for this city) what would be similar to the 1-2-3-(pause) steps that I’ve mentioned above LA or NY? I’m having too much fun to just throw it all away! I haven’t been dancing for a month now and it’s killing me!

[Terremoto]

Dancing Diva - sorry I can't help you out with your questions - hopefully others on the forum will be able to enlighten us on the matter.

But I did want to welcome you to salsa forums!!

[lolita]

Hello diva and welcome to the forums
i know tis frustrating as hell seeing the apple of ur work fall dry but its orright; u can always change to a more poular style that u like..and i think LA ON1 is danced on the 123 pause 567.
and dont worry bout the 13 patterns that u've learned already, u can easely merge them into the new style that ur learning.. and it would look awesome.

beside look at the bright side..at least u've learned a style, now u can dance two styles;) right???

[DancingDiva]

Thanks for the warm welcomes!

The more styles the merrier, I guess! It won’t hurt, if it helps me add a little spice when learning a new technique. Lolita, you’re right, maybe I should look at it this way- what I've been taught has put me on the road to loving salsa and ultimately, if I can’t find a school or someone to help me practice the style I have learned, learning another style will still keep me on the path.

You guys are a wealth of information. I just found a clip of Cuban salsa in one of the SalsaForum threads (in Romania no less, maybe I’m living in the wrong country LOL!):

salsa-romania.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=1

This is pretty much what I’ve been learning (much more advanced though… They also add a little kick which I don’t do but it’s close enough!). So despite what I was told, I guess, I may be doing some derivative of Cuban salsa.

[Tony_salvi]

Welcome DancingDiva

I totally understand your confusion about the styles. The first time I tried learning salsa I thought I'd buy a DVD first. Well, two Cuban DVDs later and I realized that most in my town danced LA on1 style.

For the longest time I was so confused because I would see how people danced on the DVD and go to the clubs and see it totally different.

So hang in there! Any style you dance is great as long as you have fun. Good luck

[pr]

Welcome DancingDiva! :D

They are dancing cuban style salsa in the clips you liked to. Of some reason the lady in the first clip is showing the men's timing... In the second clip they change timing all the time... :? They start of with the wrong foot and after a while they change to the correct foot and a little bit later they change again to an ON 2 type timing and it continues to change after that... It seems like he is only focusing on his arms but not his legs. I don't know why some cuban style dancers change their timing all the time. :roll:

The style that would be most similar to your style if choosing between La style and NY style is La style, because it also has a 123.. 567 timing. :) Atleast I learnt cuban style salsa as 123.. 567. :)

[MacMoto]

Welcome to SF DancingDiva :D

Yes the Romanian clip is Cuban style (although somewhat lacking in Cuban flava -- I'd like to see more body movement).

I think the best strategy, especially for a woman, is to learn the style that's most popular in your particular area. That way you can get more dances at socials and clubs so you get better more quickly as well as having a better time. In terms of transition it would be easier to go from Cuban to LA since the timing is the same, but if most guys in your area dance NY, then it may be worth going for that instead.

[DancingDiva]

Thanks for the responses!

I'm relieved to hear that what I've learned is not some unknown abstract style! Unfortunately, (with the 2nd clip), I'm not a level to know if they were dancing well or not (...someday, perhaps), so, I appreciate you indicating that it was not the best example to use for technique. However, if you know of a clip or video, which shows some really good Cuban dancing, please let me know, I'd love to see it! :D

I think I will be going the LA route for my next lessons. As you mentioned MacMoto, I'd hate to be sitting on the sidelines waiting for some prince charming to dance with me Cuban style- unless, I did the asking, I'd be waiting a long time!

[Tony_salvi]

However, if you know of a clip or video, which shows some really good Cuban dancing, please let me know, I'd love to see it! :D



You can try downloading some preview clips from Eric Freeman's "Salsa A La Cubana" series. Some of the clips are really advanced but gives you a good idea of the style. I'm not sure what the website is, but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to do a search for it.

Also you can try rumbanana.org and go to the video section

Hope this helps!

[Terremoto]

Just in case you are wondering Eric Freeman's website is http://www.salsaville.com/

[Terremoto]

Welcome DancingDiva

I totally understand your confusion about the styles. The first time I tried learning salsa I thought I'd buy a DVD first. Well, two Cuban DVDs later and I realized that most in my town danced LA on1 style.

For the longest time I was so confused because I would see how people danced on the DVD and go to the clubs and see it totally different.

So hang in there! Any style you dance is great as long as you have fun. Good luck

Tony, when I first tried learning salsa I bought a video of a guy from Spain. I had no idea that there were different styles of different beats or anything like that - I went to the club and saw that not a single person was dancing like the guy on my video, so I humbly sat in the corner and just observed.

[Jones, Nikka]

Hi, Dancing Diva!

I am also in Montreal and believe you me, you do not have to sit down waiting for a cuban Prince. As you become more involved in the salsa scene here in Montreal you will notice that most dancers will mix all different styles NY, Cuban, LA, Colombian, Guaguanco, etc.

The only schools that definitely do NOT do any cuban are Saltimambo (they only do NY), and SalsaRica and Salsalaval which only do LA. Conversely, Cubabaila ONLY does Cuban, but the rest of the schools here do teach a mix of all the styles, which is what you need to learn in such a cosmopolitan city like ours. I especially recommend Salsa etc, and San Tropez, they seem to have the best way of easyng the transfer from one style to the other. San Tropez especially has amazing Cuban Rueda classes, if youi are into that.

[Tony_salvi]

Nikka,

When you mean mix of different styles..Do you mean:

1) There's all different components of the styles at the same time. For example: A dile que no instead of a strict slot XBL, but danced with LA/NY moves

OR

2) Changing from one distinct style to another in a course of a song

I've personally seen both, but was wondering how it's done where you're at.

[MacMoto]

However, if you know of a clip or video, which shows some really good Cuban dancing, please let me know, I'd love to see it! :D



You can try downloading some preview clips from Eric Freeman's "Salsa A La Cubana" series. Some of the clips are really advanced but gives you a good idea of the style. I'm not sure what the website is, but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to do a search for it.

Also you can try rumbanana.org and go to the video section

Hope this helps!

Other good places for Cuban style video clips (hope you can see what I mean about body movement ;)):

:arrow: boogalu.com/generic94.html
:arrow: salsatumbao.co.uk/video.html

[azzey]

However, if you know of a clip or video, which shows some really good Cuban dancing, please let me know, I'd love to see it! :D



:arrow: boogalu.com/generic94.html
:arrow: salsatumbao.co.uk/video.html

Particularly this one:

:arrow: boogalu.com/generic132.html

..and also any of the couples clips from here:

:arrow: muchoswing.com/Download.html

[{WuMing}78]

Hihi! I am from Singapore. Nice to meet you all.

By the way, I dance on1 in L.A. Style.

[LongHairedLeader]

Welcome to Salsa Forums {WuMing}78 :)

[pr]

Welcome to Salsa Forums {WuMing}78 :)
Ditto! :D

[peachexploration]

Welcome to Salsa Forums {WuMing}78 :)
Ditto! :D

TRITTO! :D

[{WuMing}78]

I have been dancing almost a year, but I am still consider very raw. So need a lot of guidance from rookies like you all.

Singapore is a very young in the salsa scene as compared to the other countries.... and hope that one day my country can be seen in the world of Salsa.

[dreamy]

Hi, I've been dancing salsa for 2 months and have some trouble following the lead. I feel confident doing steps and turns that I've learned in classes bur get totally confused when my partner tries to leed me in a way I've not yet been led. And I believe it shouldn't be that hard, other girls seem to be doing just fine. I guess my problem is that I would hate to learn things the wrong way - just turn when my lead wants me to turn, no matter what my feet are doing.. It's quite frustrating actually. I love to dance by myself - I here the music, have rhythm and find it easy to be creative - so I often attract really good leads which I then disappoint :(

Any ideas on how to improve my following?
Thank you all :)

[peachexploration]

Hi Dreamy. The biggest misconception for follows is you have to learn the moves "before" learning the skill of "following". It really isn't the case. This depends solely upon your instructor and the way he/she teaches. Now at first, leads/follows start out with the basic depending on your style but beyond that, you should be concentrating on the signals the lead gives you. Things like:
What does a lead do when they want a right turn, left turn, cross body lead, double spin, etc... What are the signals and how does the follow "follow" through? More like the action/reaction idea. :idea:
I don't want to assume how your instructor is teaching, can you tell us a little about your classes? :)

[dreamy]

I believe the classes are just fine. We change partners all the time, we-the follows- are always encouraged to "listen" to our lead and not do anything untill we get a signal.. So I believe this is solely my problem - I guess I would make a better lead than a follow :? I just really like to know what I'm doing..

[MacMoto]

Hi Dreamy,
Check out this thread: :arrow: Salsa followers - your golden rules (http://salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=556)
There are some very good tips about following here.

It takes time to develope your follow skills. What you are experiencing is a stage every follower goes through as a beginner. Keep dancing, with as many different leaders as possible, and you will learn from experience.

And don't forget, it's possible that the leader may be at fault! You'd be surprised how many leaders who look very good can be off-time with their lead, catching you on the wrong foot etc. :twisted:

[peachexploration]

..... I feel confident doing steps and turns that I've learned in classes bur get totally confused when my partner tries to leed me in a way I've not yet been led. ......Okay, this statement is the reason that I wrote what I did earlier. Anyway, MacMoto gave you good link. I'm glad that your classes are good. :) On another note and as MacMoto mentioned, the leader may be at fault as well. One tip in order to help your following skills, try to make a concious effort to still follow through even if the leader does it wrong in class. It helps your development as well as theirs. :)

[AndrewD]

The main problem I encountered when I started was that I couldn't recover my foot work after moves. During class it's fine, the pace tends to be slow and you know what's coming next - but on the dance floor things speed up and it can be a bit too much for the learning brain. However I really improved when I finally understood that most of the stuff you learn early on are just variations of the CBL, the outside turn and the inside turn (but there are hundreds of variations).

Once I had my eureka moment I practiced these moves on my own to increasingly fast music, making sure my footwork was always correct.

This is from a male perspective but since then I've noticed that 'recovery' tends to be the issue for inexperienced follows too.
(I also learnt that during turns you don't have to make it all the way round by the end of the move, you've often got more time than you think and this is why good dancers look so smooth - they have a perfect understanding of timing).

Also, as mentioned, most of us guys aren't great at the start - so if you're being led by inexperiened leads, this will affect your ability to follow.

I think it's great that you're analysing your following ability - I suspect you're actually a lot better than you think and are being too self-critical :)

[dreamy]

...you should be concentrating on the signals the lead gives you. Things like: What does a lead do when they want a right turn, left turn, cross body lead, double spin, etc...

O.K., I can do that :) Other things confuse me, like when a lead starts to get "playful", doing different moves with his arms (especially above or behind my head), which don't necessarily mean I have to turn - but I do, because for me "arm up" is a signal for turning :? I guess it's gonna take a lot of practise till I get it. I would appreciate it if the lead corrected my "misunderstanding", but they usually don't. How will I be able to get it then :?:

Thanks for your comments and hints! I hope in a few years I will be able to give some advice, not just seeking one ;)

[praecantricis]

Ok something that might help you when the guy is moving your arms about etc...

Firstly 'arm up' is NOT a signal for anything. You should have no resistence to up and down - think about if a guy lowered your arm a bit...would you try and perform a forward roll? Nope. If the guy raises your arm and in addition applies a steady 'leading' pressure in either direction - then you have a turn, if he preps you for a spin then it's a spin...but the up itself means nothing. Think of it as a moment where you can heighten your concentration to focus of the point of contact between your two bodies so you can follow a lead well should one come along. If every time a guy raises his arm you turn - you're anticipating or backleading. In other words your guessing what you think should some next.

Another thing that might help you know where to be when your being led in something new is this. In 99 % of cases you should usually be facing the middle point of your two hands. Try it. Standard starting position hands at about waist height playing imaginary conga drums...step turn yourself round in a circle....your torso orientates to an imaginary centre point between your 2 hands. If a guy is turning you, or spinning you or moving you about the place...orientate yourself this way and you won't end up with arms wrenched out of sockets as your feet follow in one direction but your body doesn't move. The only moves where this doesn't really work are some side by side merengue style moves... It helps to think of your arms as an extension of the top of yout torso as well rather than as extra bits flapping about at the sides. So everything moves together in a connected way.

(Gosh this is so hard to explain in words. Wish I could just show you what i mean!)

[LongHairedLeader]

There's been differences of opinion about this discussed before, but try following with your eyes closed (not all the time, just as practice).

Without visual signals you'll need to pay so much more attention to your partners physical leads - you might find yourself a little more in tune.

Buy hey, I'm a leader, I don't follow much - what do I know? :)

As a leader, remembering my painful starting days, I know my leads were naff and wussy at the beginning. As already said, if you're dancing with beginners it may be their leads are poor, not your following

[sac]

Hihi! I am from Singapore. Nice to meet you all.

By the way, I dance on1 in L.A. Style.

hey welcome aboard....if u happen to be in KL, give me a buzz

[MacMoto]

O.K., I can do that :) Other things confuse me, like when a lead starts to get "playful", doing different moves with his arms (especially above or behind my head), which don't necessarily mean I have to turn - but I do, because for me "arm up" is a signal for turning :? I guess it's gonna take a lot of practise till I get it. I would appreciate it if the lead corrected my "misunderstanding", but they usually don't. How will I be able to get it then :?:
I take you are talking about haircombs -- it's actually quite tricky to get right, both for the leader and follower, until you are both used to the move. It *can* be very confusing, so don't worry if you don't get it straight away.

Leaders -- it helps if your lead is very clear about whether you want a turn or just a haircomb. Raising the followers right hand to the right of her head for a turn and directly above or slightly to the left of her head for a haircomb (this effectively blocks the follower's way for a turn) is a good way of indicating the difference. I also know a leader who leads his haircomb by putting his free hand on the inside of the follower's right elbow until her hand has passed her head -- this is another way of blocking the follower's path for a turn.

Followers -- a good rule is *not* to assume "right arm up" means a turn. follow the lead rules above (hand to the right of your head --> right turn / hand above/across your head --> haircomb), and wait until you are sure what the leader wants. Don't rush into a turn on the 5. You step forward on the 5, and at that point keep facing the leader. By the beat 6, it should be clear what the lead signal says, and if it is for a turn, you have bags of time to complete the turn over the 6-7-8. Staying faced to the leader on the 5 also helps your spotting and makes your turn sharper.

[dreamy]

O.K. guys, I went dancing and I'm proud to say, that I had a "moment of revelation".. It just all seemed so clear to me - doing exactly what the lead was doing, only after (only one of great advice, I had found on this page) :D I even received a compliment on my following :banana: So a really big THANKS to all of you! :notworthy:

I hope this wasn't just a matter of random good luck and that I won't be able to get a smile off my face the next time either!

[pr]

O.K. guys, I went dancing and I'm proud to say, that I had a "moment of revelation".. It just all seemed so clear to me - doing exactly what the lead was doing, only after (only one of great advice, I had found on this page) :D I even received a compliment on my following :banana: So a really big THANKS to all of you! :notworthy:

I hope this wasn't just a matter of random good luck and that I won't be able to get a smile off my face the next time either!
:bouncy: :cheers: :D

[latinosolito]

Hola,

Soy nuevo a este forum. I live in the pittsburgh area, and, if your a native pittsburgher, there's not much latin life here. I'm originaly from NYC, but have been out of the city for years. I learned to dance, when I was a kid, forgot somehow, and got back on the saddle. Me encanta la salsa, y bueno, soy latino, I guess its in the blood, ¿no?

Bueno, siempre he tenido un problema. I'm not that good of a leader, and, just how do you lead, is it the position of the hands on your partner. Soy varon, hence latinosolito, masculino. Me da pena admitir eso...pero, necesito un poco de guia. ¡Gracias!

[Kelvin Yee]

Hi Dreamy,

If you have all the footwork tied down, and you are confident in your turns, but yet still can't follow or react very well, then it is the state of your mind which is the problem.

It is our 2nd nature to want to know what comes next and to have control. That is built into our daily lives. But for social dancing, the follow needs to unlearn that 2nd nature.

This is what I do with my partner to test my lead and to train her following "feel". Firstly, choose a trustworthy partner preferably someone with a sound lead for at least the basic moves, someone who would not do more than you require him to. Ask him to lead you with your eyes close. Start off with basic steps. Once comfortable, proceed to cross body lead. Next proceed to simple right turn. The next would be cross lead turn. Try this at a slow tempo. Once you are confident of balancing and doing these with eyes close, ask him to start to jumble up the sequence. Try not to be over-ambitious and start doing more difficult turn patterns until you yourself feel really ready, and try not to do this at a crowded club. For us it really works. That was how she slowly lose the urge to anticipate, and I know for sure my lead (at least for the basic moves) works fine. It might work for you.

I know one may think "but these are just simple moves", but it is a good start to learn to rely 100% on your sense of touch. Has it ever occur to you that for some of the moves, you might have followed the lead with some help from your sense of sight? Anyway have fun.

Good Luck.

Kelvin Yee

[peachexploration]

Hola,

Soy nuevo a este forum. I live in the pittsburgh area, and, if your a native pittsburgher, there's not much latin life here. I'm originaly from NYC, but have been out of the city for years. I learned to dance, when I was a kid, forgot somehow, and got back on the saddle. Me encanta la salsa, y bueno, soy latino, I guess its in the blood, ¿no?

Bueno, siempre he tenido un problema. I'm not that good of a leader, and, just how do you lead, is it the position of the hands on your partner. Soy varon, hence latinosolito, masculino. Me da pena admitir eso...pero, necesito un poco de guia. ¡Gracias!
Hi Latinosolito. Welcome to Salsa Forums. :) I'm not a leader but I can say this it's more to leading that just one aspect. Take a look at the following threads. Hopefully, it will give you a better idea:

Different Leads (http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1322&highlight=leaders)
Is leading being taught properly? (http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1428&highlight=leaders)
Salsa Leaders - Your Golden Rules (http://www.salsaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=564&highlight=leaders)

Are you taking classes? I think there is a Salsa community in Pittsburgh if I'm not mistaken but I could be wrong. Feel free to just jump right into the dicussion threads. Happy to have your here. :)

[peachexploration]

LatinSolito? How's it going? :)

[snowflake]

What is considered dangerous dancing?

Hi all. Been lurking around and reading various posts, and some of them refer to others' dangerous style of dancing. Not having much experience and the only place I dance has a large dance floor, nothing there looks particularly dangerous? So I'm having a hard time to imagine what could be, could anyone give me some examples? Just so I don't trip up and become a danger to myself and others ;)

thanks

[hyh]

What is considered dangerous dancing?

Not paying sufficient attention to something that could cause bodily harm would be a good definition by my book - usually happens when people try to dance in ways well beyond their (or their partner's or sometimes people nearbys) current abilities.

[sweavo]

What is considered dangerous dancing?

Not paying sufficient attention to something that could cause bodily harm would be a good definition by my book - usually happens when people try to dance in ways well beyond their (or their partner's or sometimes people nearbys) current abilities.

Yeah, usually the cause is ambition higher than ability, sometimes it's a lack of consideration. Often it only takes a quiet word to point this out to someone, but sometimes it's an attitude problem.

The dangers themselves include sharp heels scraping down people's legs; either partner stepping on other feet; leading a follower into the path of other dancers; when a leader or follower yanks the other partner around; lifts and dips in confined spaces or without checking around before committing to a highly energetic move; elbows in eyes, cheeks or chins; lack of balance leading to falls; lack of limb control leading to tripping self or others...

[snowflake]

Got it. Thanks :D

[snowflake]

Eureka Moment in the Office around Lunchtime Today!

One week ago confusion ruled, but today I got it! On2 !!!! I get what it means, and how you do it :D :D :D I can even manage it in a a basic step (will now go back and read all related posts about how to modify On1 patterns to On2). I can't now remember which post I read, but there was one word there that made it all fall into place: syncopation. I know what that is as I do music, so to my simple understanding dancing On2 is syncopation with your feet. Same music, same beat, just move your foot out/forward/back on 2 instead of 1. Looks really groovy if you ask me 8) . Have I got it right?

Another realisation: Last week at warmup the girl at the front doing all the moves was moving in kind of the same rythm as the rest of us, but her feet didn't move at the same time as us duffers at the back! I reckon she was doing the On2 thing. Cool!

Still don't know what ET2 is, but I'm sure it will come to me.

So sorry to bore you all with being so excited about something so basic, but the sad truth is that no one else (certainly not in my office) wants to listen to me going on about Salsa any more. :roll:

... 234 - 678 ... moving feet surreptitiously under desk to a Salsa beat only I can hear ....

[sweavo]

So sorry to bore you all with being so excited about something so basic, but the sad truth is that no one else (certainly not in my office) wants to listen to me going on about Salsa any more. :roll:

... 234 - 678 ... moving feet surreptitiously under desk to a Salsa beat only I can hear ....

Heheh, not at all! Excitement good, basics good, = good squared!

ET2 is a funny hybrid of the two. Step with your feet in the same TIMING as on1, but instead of

BIG replace small ... BIG replace small ...

go

small BIG replace .... small BIG replace ....

that's ET2 (or something like it anyway!)

[chr]

ET2 is a funny hybrid of the two. Step with your feet in the same TIMING as on1, but instead of

BIG replace small ... BIG replace small ...

go

small BIG replace .... small BIG replace ....

I learned ET2 from a very knowledgeable guy, and he told me that the break steps (on 2) should be smaller than the traveling steps. My regular instructor told me to make equal sized (small) steps. My Cuban instructor also told me to make my break steps smaller than the traveling steps in Cuban style. Noone ever wanted me to make the break steps bigger.

[noobster]

I learned ET2 from a very knowledgeable guy, and he told me that the break steps (on 2) should be smaller than the traveling steps. My regular instructor told me to make equal sized (small) steps. My Cuban instructor also told me to make my break steps smaller than the traveling steps in Cuban style. Noone ever wanted me to make the break steps bigger.

Oh, bla bla bla. There are so many differences between individual styles. This doesn't seem like the kind of thing you're likely to get a consensus on. (Notice how your own teachers didn't agree with each other either!)

I think the key is to try to conform to the instructions of the teacher of the moment, but then to try things out and critically evaluate for oneself on the floor, and see which pieces of advice enhance one's personal style and which ones clash with it. Maybe you like small break steps, maybe somebody else likes big ones. We don't all have to dance exactly the same way.

[Flujo]

So sorry to bore you all with being so excited about something so basic, but the sad truth is that no one else (certainly not in my office) wants to listen to me going on about Salsa any more. :roll:

... 234 - 678 ... moving feet surreptitiously under desk to a Salsa beat only I can hear ....

Heheh, not at all! Excitement good, basics good, = good squared!

Ditto!! :D
It's great to read eureka moment posts snowflake. Love that you are learning on2 as well!

[chr]

Oh, bla bla bla. There are so many differences between individual styles. This doesn't seem like the kind of thing you're likely to get a consensus on. (Notice how your own teachers didn't agree with each other either!)

Even if you could show any reasonable instuctor advocating long break steps (which I seriously doubt: both instructors I mentioned has a relative big looking break step, which is mainly an illusion caused by pushing away from the floor) what I wanted to say is that the original post completely missed the point: the difference between on1 and ET2 is by no means about the size of the steps.

[SoulOnFire234]

Hello to all!I'm new-addicted also! :P

[MacMoto]

Welcome to SF, SoulOnFire234! :D

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

I think the key is to try to conform to the instructions of the teacher of the moment, but then to try things out and critically evaluate for oneself on the floor, and see which pieces of advice enhance one's personal style and which ones clash with it.Sage wisdom from Noobster! 8)

[sweavo]

BIG replace small ... BIG replace small ...


I learned ET2 from a very knowledgeable guy, and he told me that the break steps (on 2) should be smaller than the traveling steps. My regular instructor told me to make equal sized (small) steps. My Cuban instructor also told me to make my break steps smaller than the traveling steps in Cuban style. Noone ever wanted me to make the break steps bigger.

There's a common factor there: are you sure that's not just that you have insanely big break steps? :)

But you have a point when you pull me up on my lazy language. Hopefully I can answer that point: Regardless of the distance stepped on the floor, I figured that the terminology I used in that post would be meaningful for snowflake and would communicate the essential difference between the basic steps on 1 and on ET2.

Nobody should, nor ever will, get absolute truth on their dancing from an internet forum. The process is a cycle of doing, being observed, then being reflected back at yourself, then assimilating the information and modifying what you do. It's only when the student applies critical thinking (as noobster points out) that learning really takes place.

For this reason, I prefer to use language that makes the reader do some of the work to getting the meaning. I want people to grow their own wisdom rather than getting off-the-shelf ideas and parroting them back emptily.

[MacMoto]

Noone ever wanted me to make the break steps bigger.
Funny, I had two teachers telling me that I had to make my back break step bigger... after years I spent trying to make my steps smaller.

[Salsamakossa]

Scandalous!!! lol

Noone ever wanted me to make the break steps bigger.
Funny, I had two teachers telling me that I had to make my back break step bigger... after years I spent trying to make my steps smaller.

[John S2]

I had two teachers telling me that I had to make my back break step bigger... after years I spent trying to make my steps smaller.
I am curious about this. For what reason were the teachers suggesting bigger back steps?

[salsaonline]

I'd really like everyone to start taking smaller steps on the social dance floor.

[chr]

There's a common factor there: are you sure that's not just that you have insanely big break steps? :)

Sometimes some of my steps (including the break step) tend to become bigger than optimal and, not too surprisingly, this was the reason I was corrected. Still, the instructor was very explicit about telling that break step should be generally shorter than the traveling step. I don't think that this is his special personal style, since his dancing looks very balanced and has very clean looking, pronounced break steps not that fuzzy kind that NY style social dancers sometimes have, (he is a relatively famous salsa performer with an awful lot of trophies) The other guy who told me the same thing about Cuban style is not such a big name, but his style looks very crisp as well and he told me the same about the size relation of the traveling and break steps.

[MacMoto]

I had two teachers telling me that I had to make my back break step bigger... after years I spent trying to make my steps smaller.
I am curious about this. For what reason were the teachers suggesting bigger back steps?
The first teacher (on1) felt that my stepping in place (almost) on the 1 instead of stepping back was contributing to my balance issue.

The second teacher (on2) felt I needed to make a bigger back break on the 6 in order to make a clear weight shift and the subsequent bounce back over the 7-1 - he said my weight shift was too mushy and it sometimes made it difficult to lead me through more complex moves.

Both teachers said to me that it was much more common for people to have problems with steps that are too big, but that it wasn't the case for me.

[chr]

The second teacher (on2) felt I needed to make a bigger back break on the 6 in order to make a clear weight shift and the subsequent bounce back over the 7-1 - he said my weight shift was too mushy and it sometimes made it difficult to lead me through more complex moves.

A small step does not mean that it should be "mushy", quite on the contrary.

The correct technique for the break steps is to make a small step and then push away the core in horizontal direction while the weight is on the stepping leg. For the onlooker it creates the illusion of the break step being much bigger than it is, since the leg straightens (but does not lock).

If the break step starts with a long step, then there is much less room and energy to perform this pushing action, preventing the body travel through the moves, so paradoxically, exactly the small size of the steps makes it possible to travel more. What can make it mushy, is when one gets lazy and forgets the spring action and starts to change weight in place instead of using the break step to gain momentum.

[MacMoto]

Yes I take your point, but since small/big are relative terms, it's difficult to say if someone's step is too big/too small/just right without actually seeing it, no?

What can make it mushy, is when one gets lazy and forgets the spring action and starts to change weight in place instead of using the break step to gain momentum.
I think this is the point the second teacher was making (i.e., I was making the weight shift in place instead of breaking properly).

.............

A separate point about step size:
I'd really like everyone to start taking smaller steps on the social dance floor.
One thing that can affect the size of the follower's step is the size/momentum of the lead. Some guys seem to have a habit of "leading big", and some seem to catapult the follower along the slot. Both have an effect of making the follower take bigger steps to match lead. There are of course followers who take big steps whatever the lead, and a lack of balance can often result in a bigger back break out of a turn, but there are also cases where it's the lead (i.e., what's happening "upstairs") that's the problem rather than the step size per se.

[salsaonline]

All I know is that I get crashed into a lot. And in many of those cases I'm just doing simple basics, so it's not me.

[MacMoto]

All I know is that I get crashed into a lot. And in many of those cases I'm just doing simple basics, so it's not me.
And I wasn't saying it was you ;) - I was saying dancing small is not *just* about taking smaller steps.

[salsaonline2]

All I know is that I get crashed into a lot. And in many of those cases I'm just doing simple basics, so it's not me.
And I wasn't saying it was you ;) - I was saying dancing small is not *just* about taking smaller steps.

True. But taking smaller steps is a simple way to reduce your dance space, and on top of that, it makes it easier to keep up with the music. Is it the solution to all of life's problems? Probably not, but there's only one way to find out. ;)

[sweavo]

All I know is that I get crashed into a lot. And in many of those cases I'm just doing simple basics, so it's not me.
And I wasn't saying it was you ;) - I was saying dancing small is not *just* about taking smaller steps.

True. But taking smaller steps is a simple way to reduce your dance space, and on top of that, it makes it easier to keep up with the music. Is it the solution to all of life's problems? Probably not, but there's only one way to find out. ;)

smaller steps is part of the solution to most of life's problems, IME

[DeeplyDippy]

smaller steps is part of the solution to most of life's problems, IME

And so the student surpasses the master :D
http://www.digitallard.com/images/dvd%20review/content420/kungfu22.jpg

[SnowDancer]

smaller steps is part of the solution to most of life's problems, IME

And so the student surpasses the master :D
http://www.digitallard.com/images/dvd%20review/content420/kungfu22.jpg

:uplaugh:

But you are truly a master when you can lead a CBL with chopsticks.