You know you have improved when......

[salsachinita]

You know you have improved when:

- You get asked to dance more often than you do asking for dances.

- You no longer feel intimidated.

- You watch salsa clips & go: "yeah, I should be able to do that." intead of doing :shock: ......

...............it's a great feeling, isn't it :o ?!

Would anyone else like to share theirs.....?

[squirrel]

When students of other schools come to you with their non dancing friends and say "I want to introduce X to you... (s)he is looking for an instructor and I think you are the best!" :shock: :shock: :shock: (makes one wonder why they don't come themselves!)

When beginners/intermediate dancers refuse to dance with you when invited saying "Oh, no, you intimidate me! You're too good and I will bore you!" and if they accept, they stick to doing the basic (even your students, whom you have just taught a complicated pattern during class and congratulated them in how well they did it! :shock: :shock: :shock: ) even when encouraged!

When people try the hardest moves they know just to check if they can lead an advanced dancer through them! :lol: :lol:

When people come to you and say "It's been a joy and a privilege to watch you and your partner dance!" or clap their hands at the end of the song! :shock: :shock: :shock:

[s_a_l_s_a]

Good point Salsachinita!

Now i just have to practise more to try to reach that level hehe!
if i ever do haha! :)

And Squirrel, when you state "Oh, no, you intimidate me! You're too good and I will bore you!" . It's so true. my female friends said that to a guy once and she was a beginner like me.

For me as a beginner, the only things i can add to this thread is:

I started to feel that i was improving when i felt that:

- i could lead the girl in to the moves i know

- the girls whom i've danced with before accept dancing with me again! (or may be they are just nice haha!)

- when i feel that i am ENJOYING the dance and the music and appreciating my dance partner's moves .. rather than counting my steps or thinking about my next move :)


that's it for me...
ciao

[MacMoto]

- when i feel that i am ENJOYING the dance and the music and appreciating my dance partner's moves .. rather than counting my steps or thinking about my next move :)
Very good point, jshadow. There's a point where salsa stops being just doing steps and moves and you truly start dancing, and it's a wonderful feeling. :D

[s_a_l_s_a]

MacMoto, you got it right!

it's a wonderful feeling!

it's learning and enjoying at the same time! :)

I wish learning at school was as fun as learning salsa hehe :P

[Miami Rueda dancer]

when you get asked to dance constantly :) Good one SalsaChinita :D

lol Its alot of fun but then it gets tiring hehehe

[arli]

when all the girls are trying to grab you as their partner on the local course hours :P ..

or when a girl comes to you all sad in the face cuz she cant do a move, and then she does it perfectly on the first try with you cuz of your ability to lead! :D

[peachexploration]

That's great, Arli. :cheers:

[El guru]

Altough I still feel the continuous improving time by time...

I remember some moments in my dancing life...

When a cuban girl living in italy since some years during the song told me... surprised... "but... you dance on music, not only patterns..." and at the end kissed me friendly telling "thanks a lot, I felt at home for the first time in years... :oops: "

Another time when I invited to dance the partner of Angel Martinez (winner of some World Championchips and Puerto Rico Open) and danced with her for 3 songs with fun for both...

In any case everytime I feel ready to dance with someone that till that moment I considered too much for me... I invite her and dance with fun...

[peachexploration]

.....When a cuban girl living in italy since some years during the song told me... surprised... "but... you dance on music, not only patterns..." and at the end kissed me friendly telling "thanks a lot, I felt at home for the first time in years... :oops: "....
I think that's one of the best compliments any Salser@ can get. How nice! :D

[arli]

Indeed, i agree fully on that. Its not uncommon i see dancers that can do alot of complicated or advanced turns but somehow when u watch them dance you dont see that 'spark' .. they just do everything so mechanically..they dont really _feel_ the music.

If you can feel the music and dance with the music and not just do what your learned to do it will become much more fun to dance even if you cannot do all those complicated moves the other person can :P ..

[frenchsalsera]

After having experienced a lot of those enjoyable proofs of improvement, I’d say : when those excellent dancers that still intimidate me a lot just come to invite me for a dance, whereas I was wondering when I would get the chance to do so.

And then invite me again… :D :D :D

[vin]

When you can "pick up" the dancer chicks :twisted:

[pr]

... you can dance with "a flow" in your movements without thinking about the next move to come.
... people ask you about (spin) technique.
... your partner ask you if you did two or three spins when you did one, or ask if you did three when you did two.

[salsa on the beach]

You know you have improved when:


- You no longer feel intimidated.



this means I've not improved since I've started to dance salsa! :oops:
(9 months ago!)

[ksm4791]

when classmates want me to go over a shine or a older turn pattern with them.

[vin]

When someone says, I NEED to dance this one, and then they call your name.

[seut]

I actually don't know - I still haven't :)

[peachexploration]

Your new instructor says to you during class with a serious look into your eyes, "You've already had classes haven't you?" When you have been purposely dancing "down" in order "not" to be found out. :D :lol:

[lucretia]

... people ask you about (spin) technique.
... your partner ask you if you did two or three spins when you did one, or ask if you did three when you did two.

I must agree in this :D
Today I got a glimpse of PRs spinning technique. We met for the first time at a salsaclass. It was fun meeting an Salsaforum friend for real. I hope I will meet more of you in the future :D

/luc

[Claire_Brummell]

When you dance with a teacher that you admire / respect / have studied under at a club and THEY get a big grin on their face (and not because you nearly tripped up! ;) ) - the first time this happened to me I felt exhilerated - because not only was I enjoying it, but they were too! :D

Oh and the other one for me was being told that I had to be from Puerto Rico on the Thursday and from Columbia the following Sunday because of the way I danced (I am blonde with skin the colour of tippex and blue eyes...not your average puerorican look-alike!)

[pr]

... people ask you about (spin) technique.
... your partner ask you if you did two or three spins when you did one, or ask if you did three when you did two.

I must agree in this :D
Today I got a glimpse of PRs spinning technique. We met for the first time at a salsaclass. It was fun meeting an Salsaforum friend for real. I hope I will meet more of you in the future :D

/luc
Thanks! :D I hope I will meet you soon again Lucretia, and I also hope I will meet some more people from SF in the future! :D

[Wicked Salsero]

...when after a show of my instructor, followed by a show from alex da silva, followed by "casual" session of my partner, people come to me to give them my phone number to give them private lessons, and even when i say that they are the teachers and i am the student, the insist that i would give them lessons :) :lol:

[peachexploration]

Very nice compliment to you, WS! :D

[Wicked Salsero]

i know man...its quite rediculous if you think of it, and somehow it makes you uncomfortable but hey :oops:

[peachexploration]

Right. Now you know people are watching (admiring) your dancing. :lol: Still very nice. :cheers:

[pr]

...when after a show of my instructor, followed by a show from alex da silva, followed by "casual" session of my partner, people come to me to give them my phone number to give them private lessons, and even when i say that they are the teachers and i am the student, the insist that i would give them lessons :) :lol:
Congrats! :cheers:

[pr]

... when your teacher says wow and reaches her hand for a high five. :D 8) 8)

[Miami Rueda dancer]

when the class is watching me dance and when I'm done they start to clap :) its an awesome feeling and my instructors sya ive improved alot, just need to remember to take small steps to make it look "cuter" :oops:

[Claire_Brummell]

Congrats hon!

just need to remember to take small steps to make it look "cuter" :oops:

Smaller steps won't just make it look 'cuter' it'll make it far easier for you - the smaller steps you take the less distance you have to travel and therefore the quicker and easier you can get there with less effort, leaving you free and giving you extra time to put the effort into styling :D

[Miami Rueda dancer]

thanks Claire! :) small steps, small steps.. ;)

[pr]

thanks Claire! :) small steps, small steps.. ;)
Yes, smaller steps is necessary if dancing to a fast song. Another way is to use no steps at all. For example when spinning the lady (it doesn't interupt her spinning). I think it is most common for cross body style not to take any steps at all, but I also use it for Cuban style. :)

[Claire_Brummell]

thanks Claire! :) small steps, small steps.. ;)
Yes, smaller steps is necessary if dancing to a fast song. Another way is to use no steps at all. For example when spinning the lady (it doesn't interupt her spinning). I think it is most common for cross body style not to take any steps at all, but I also use it for Cuban style. :)

This is a commonly used technique, but they key to perfecting it is to still mark time on the spot so as to ensure that you don't lose your timing... :D

[pr]

thanks Claire! :) small steps, small steps.. ;)
Yes, smaller steps is necessary if dancing to a fast song. Another way is to use no steps at all. For example when spinning the lady (it doesn't interupt her spinning). I think it is most common for cross body style not to take any steps at all, but I also use it for Cuban style. :)

This is a commonly used technique, but they key to perfecting it is to still mark time on the spot so as to ensure that you don't lose your timing... :D
I "feel" the timing instead! :D Another way is to do a body way (like for example Al "Liquid Silver" Espinoza). I have to work on the body wave for myself...

[Claire_Brummell]

I "feel" the timing instead! :D Another way is to do a body way (like for example Al "Liquid Silver" Espinoza). I have to work on the body wave for myself...

I agree - it's quite easy for me to keep time without stepping - as long as you can here & feel the beat even if you lose it you can pick it up again, but I've found with a lot of my students that when they stop moving their feet that they can lose the beat. So while they're getting to the point when the beat is natural for them to find, I get them to mark time on the spot to make it easier for them. By all means if people can do it without then go for it!! I do!! :D

[latindia]

1) You 'feel' the music instead of worrying about moves.

2) Random people (girls!) come upto you and ask you where you take lessons, besides complimenting you on how good you (and your partner) looked as a couple.

3) I took this friend from school, a girl from Colombia, out dancing. After one song, she was like, 'You know what? You dance like a Latino. I can dance with you!' :banana:


All these happened in the same night last week. It was wonderful. I still am a newbie, I barely did any patterns or moves. Mostly just the basic with variations. But still...it was wonderful.

[peachexploration]

... But still...it was wonderful.That's what matters most, Latindia. :cheers:

Welcome to Salsa Forums! Happy to have you here. :D

[Nickie p]

I had a little *improvement* last night

I danced with my instructor and didnt miss any of his leads - and have been told he gives the lightest leads imaginable!

[DeeplyDippy]

When your partner rushes off to her friends and says that was the best dance all night :D

Woo !

[peachexploration]

NickieP and DD. :cheers: :D

[vin]

When you find out some people who admire your style are instructing classes themselves.

[Jones, Nikka]

You know you've improved when:

You are having too good a time to worry or care about patterns, style or the old On1/On2 argument.

You realize is closing time and you did not feel the evening go by.

A really good dancer approaches you and says: "So... who do I have to kill to get a dance with you?"

[lucretia]

You dare to dance with Albert Torres :oops: :D

Of course I made a fool out of myself - but I wouldn't have done it three months ago :D .

(Albert was here for the Swedish qualification to his World Salsa Championship. I meet him on a latino party the evening before the competition. He seemed to be such a nice man ... and this helped of course....lowered the threshold)

/luc

[DeeplyDippy]

You dare to dance with Albert Torres :oops: :D
Way to go !

[praecantricis]

A guy you haven't seen for a couple of months asks you to dance and you follow flawlessly and actually manage to be dipped without any danger of landing on your a$$. He raises an eyebrow and smiles....hmm now where is Albert Torres when you need him.....

[Martialdog]

...when you hear your instructor using you as a marketing tool for other newbies by saying "he only started 8 weeks ago and look at him now!"

8)

[peachexploration]

..A really good dancer approaches you and says: "So... who do I have to kill to get a dance with you?"Nice! :)

[peachexploration]

...when you hear your instructor using you as a marketing tool for other newbies by saying "he only started 8 weeks ago and look at him now!"

8) :D :D

[peachexploration]

When you find out some people who admire your style are instructing classes themselves. :cheers:

[peachexploration]

You dare to dance with Albert Torres :oops: :D

Of course I made a fool out of myself - but I wouldn't have done it three months ago :D .

(Albert was here for the Swedish qualification to his World Salsa Championship. I meet him on a latino party the evening before the competition. He seemed to be such a nice man ... and this helped of course....lowered the threshold)

/luc :cheers:

[pr]

:cheers: all "improvers"! :D :D

[vin]

When you realize that just because someone is well known as a salsa instructor/performer/choreagropher. That doesn't mean they are a great social dance partner.

[peachexploration]

When you realize that just because someone is well known as a salsa instructor/performer/choreagropher. That doesn't mean they are a great social dance partner.Or even a great instructor sometimes. ;)

[lolita]

when an instructor says.. hey how could u move ur hips like this:D:D:D

[LongHairedLeader]

When your instructor, in explaining cuban motion to the rest of the class, deliberately chooses you as a demonstration partner...

[Salsamakossa]

Is that what that meant? lol...

...when you hear your instructor using you as a marketing tool for other newbies by saying "he only started 8 weeks ago and look at him now!"

8)

[Hock Siew]

You realize is closing time and you did not feel the evening go by.



I realised that this is starting to happen to me all the time :D But perhaps it`s because Salsa clubs in Kuala Lumpur close/empty a lot earlier (usually about 1:30 to 2:00) than in Montreal :)

[AndrewD]

I feel a big-headed posting these, but what the hell, it’s Monday and I need to cheer myself up.

Went to a new salsa venue and as I was leaving an instructor chased after me to tell me that he liked the way I danced (a nice compliment, as men tend not to praise each other).

I had a dance with one of my long term instructors and she said that I had become ‘a lovely dancer’ (whilst correcting my spot turns.)

At my regular venues I tend to get asked to dance almost as often as I do the asking.

Only one more salsa princess to go.

Had my first “That was great! Can we stay on for another dance?” recently.

Last week I was asked for advice by a guy who has been dancing for twice as long as I have.

[Swannie]

Mhh, I got a few compliments during my weekend of dancing.

"You have the best lead of anyone I have danced with" !!! This was from a local salsera who I have not danced with before. A long time dancer, but she's relatively new to salsa (10months).

"Mhh, nice lead" (about a tiny thing I didn't realise I did any more) - Robert Charlemange! (Got a little clap from him too after a dance with a very nice German lady, didn't realise he was watching!!!)

"You've got talent." !!! - Miguel de PuertoRico at the end of one of his classes when I went to thank him for a fun class.

I was very surprised at all of these! I'm not sure I deserve such praise. I don't feel like I have earned it :)

[AndrewD]

Sounds like you're improving fast Swannie :)

On the downside – I forgot, but last week I had my first ‘aborted’ dance. The lady concerned was a beginner and about 30 seconds in she apologised saying “sorry I’m not really up for this” and walked off :shock:

[Hock Siew]

You know you have improved when......

Whilst discussing dancing with you, experienced or advanced dancers refer to beginners in the third person (not that we judge beginners, of course; I still think of myself as being a beginner, in many ways).

[KP-salsa]

You know you've improved when ...

someone you started dancing with at the same time tells you "you know when we first went to The Engine Shed and we saw all the experienced dancers and said wow, we'll never be like them, well, we look at you and your partner dancing now and think exactly the same thing".

Admittedly they haven't been dancing for about a year, but it gave me a warm glow - not that I feel like I'm partiicularly brilliant, but I can certainly feel that I've improved substantially in the last 12 months.

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

You know you've improved when ...

someone you started dancing with at the same time tells you "you know when we first went to The Engine Shed and we saw all the experienced dancers and said wow, we'll never be like them, well, we look at you and your partner dancing now and think exactly the same thing".

Admittedly they haven't been dancing for about a year, but it gave me a warm glow - not that I feel like I'm partiicularly brilliant, but I can certainly feel that I'm improved substantially in the last 12 months.I know who it was said that and they know nothing! ;) :roll:

However in this case, to be fair, they are absolutely correct. :) you guys have truly moved on lightyears over the last 12 months. Folk look at you two now and think "Wow!" :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[AndrewS]

You know you've improved when...

You can add something useful to the conversation in a SF topic

Eh? Oh. :oops:
:roll:

[AndrewD]

You know you've improved when...

You can add something useful to the conversation in a SF topic

Eh? Oh. :oops:
:roll:

I rarely have anything useful to say – I just reword what everyone else has written to make myself feel good ;)

[irishgirl]

You know you've improved when...

You can add something useful to the conversation in a SF topic

Eh? Oh. :oops:
:roll:

I rarely have anything useful to say – I just reword what everyone else has written to make myself feel good ;)
:lol:

[AndrewS]

You know you've improved when...

You can add something useful to the conversation in a SF topic

Eh? Oh. :oops:
:roll:

I rarely have anything useful to say – I just reword what everyone else has written to make myself feel good ;)
:lol:

I have something useful to add :!:

When you dance with a teacher and she apologises a number of times in the dance for missing your leads :lol:

Or were they just bad leads? ...

[sweavo]

I rarely have anything useful to say – I just reword what everyone else has written to make myself feel good ;)

As andrew says, sometimes you can take what someone else says and rehash it as your own! It makes you feel good!

(see what I did there :-) )

[AndrewD]

I rarely have anything useful to say – I just reword what everyone else has written to make myself feel good ;)

As andrew says, sometimes you can take what someone else says and rehash it as your own! It makes you feel good!

(see what I did there :-) )

I think this is an interesting approach – I think most of my posts are inspired by what other people have written, but it feels nice to put my spin on things.

(somebody stop me)

[Shooshoo]

When you get compliments from other women about your dancing (you being a woman of course :D )

[AndrewS]

When you get compliments from other women about your dancing (you being a woman of course :D )

When you get compliments from other women about your dancing (you being a man :D )

That one's almost worthy of AndrewD or sweavo :lol:[/b]

[sababa]

When your instructor tells you "You've cracked the enigma of Salsa".

When you tell yourself it's time to learn a new Salsa dance style.

When all of the hotshots that used to snub you, are begging you in their eyes for a dance.

When you dance Rueda with your eyes shut just to amuse your partners.

When you watch out for other people bumping into you, instead of them watching out for you.

When the best dancer in the club taps you on your shoulder while he passes by you.

[Shooshoo]

When you get compliments from other women about your dancing (you being a woman of course :D )

When you get compliments from other women about your dancing (you being a man :D )

That one's almost worthy of AndrewD or sweavo :lol:[/b]

maybe they're flirting ;) ?

[noobster]

When all of the hotshots that used to snub you, are begging you in their eyes for a dance.

Aw, c'mon. Does this really happen? I do notice that as time goes on there are more leaders who become willing to ask me for a dance, but I doubt they're thinking much about having 'snubbed' me before or 'begging' now. First of all I'm still not at the point where anyone would 'beg' me for a dance, but more importantly there are so many awesome dancers around, any one partner is really not such a big deal.

And I mean really, I've been improving but so have they of course. And I suspect a lot of them just didn't even notice me until I came into their 'dance range.' People just don't *see* beginners. Honestly, they're like furniture. There are definitely guys around who took a chance on an unknown and danced with me once or twice when I was just starting, and then didn't ask again for a long time (until I came into their range). I seriously doubt they remembered they'd danced with me before.

Anyway, regarding improvement: I've had several leaders (whom I don't see that often, maybe once every couple of months) say to me, "You get better and better every time I dance with you!" I actually feel like that is a bit of a *duh* comment - you dance, time passes, you get better, right? don't we all? - but it's always nice to hear.

Also interestingly, sometimes leaders think it's I who've improved when it's actually (I think) they. E.g., I danced with one guy when he was starting about four months ago, and then saw him again recently. He was like, "Wow, you've gotten so good!" Chuckle - he's the one who is still on the steepest part of the learning curve; the difference four months make when you start from zero is much greater than four months' difference in your second year of salsa. He'd just started to learn to lead things where he would notice whether the woman could handle them or not.

[sababa]

When all of the hotshots that used to snub you, are begging you in their eyes for a dance.

Aw, c'mon. Does this really happen? I do notice that as time goes on there are more leaders who become willing to ask me for a dance, but I doubt they're thinking much about having 'snubbed' me before or 'begging' now. First of all I'm still not at the point where anyone would 'beg' me for a dance, but more importantly there are so many awesome dancers around, any one partner is really not such a big deal.

And I mean really, I've been improving but so have they of course. And I suspect a lot of them just didn't even notice me until I came into their 'dance range.' People just don't *see* beginners. Honestly, they're like furniture. There are definitely guys around who took a chance on an unknown and danced with me once or twice when I was just starting, and then didn't ask again for a long time (until I came into their range). I seriously doubt they remembered they'd danced with me before.

Anyway, regarding improvement: I've had several leaders (whom I don't see that often, maybe once every couple of months) say to me, "You get better and better every time I dance with you!" I actually feel like that is a bit of a *duh* comment - you dance, time passes, you get better, right? don't we all? - but it's always nice to hear.

Also interestingly, sometimes leaders think it's I who've improved when it's actually (I think) they. E.g., I danced with one guy when he was starting about four months ago, and then saw him again recently. He was like, "Wow, you've gotten so good!" Chuckle - he's the one who is still on the steepest part of the learning curve; the difference four months make when you start from zero is much greater than four months' difference in your second year of salsa. He'd just started to learn to lead things where he would notice whether the woman could handle them or not.

Well, I wrote this post in a humorous tone. But you will be surprised, one day you will be one of the hotshots - it's just a matter of time. And when that day comes, remember to be humble and where you started from. Everyone wants a chance to dance, so don't forget to ask also the beginners.

[sababa]

And just keep facts apart from fiction i really do get the feeling that they're dying for a dance with me. :D

[Brownskin818]

When you lose your original impression of dance greatness in people. When I was starting out, there were quite a few ladies who I thought were the absolute booooooomb. I could tell you where and when I saw them the first time. What they had on that night. Who they were dancing with. I "captured" so much about them, because in my mind they were superstars. Fast forward a couple of years, and that original list of maybe 10 ladies, has dwindled down to about 2. :lol: Only 2 of those original ladies still do it for me, still make me want to stop dancing to just sit and watch them. The rest of them no longer impress me as much (because I've gotten better I imagine).

But on the flip side, I wonder how many other beginners for whom my dancing has done the same? Would I be one of their 2 or one of their lost 8?? :o :P

[noobster]

Well, I wrote this post in a humorous tone. But you will be surprised, one day you will be one of the hotshots - it's just a matter of time.

Nah, I don't think I'm headed for hotshot-dom. It's just too much effort. There's no way I'm going to be dancing six nights a week for the next five years like some of these people. It's not enough of a priority for me. :P

And just keep facts apart from fiction i really do get the feeling that they're dying for a dance with me.

Sorry if my post implied I didn't believe you! I just wanted to share my own impressions of the dynamics in my scene. Obviously I can't speak for yours!
(But again, my scene is fairly large so I don't know how many people are 'dying' for dances with anybody, as there's always another excellent partner available. I'm certainly not. The people I most like to dance with are usually also the ones who most like to dance with me! so it works out! :) )

[Staged]

When you lose your original impression of dance greatness in people. When I was starting out, there were quite a few ladies who I thought were the absolute booooooomb. I could tell you where and when I saw them the first time. What they had on that night. Who they were dancing with. I "captured" so much about them, because in my mind they were superstars. Fast forward a couple of years, and that original list of maybe 10 ladies, has dwindled down to about 2. :lol: Only 2 of those original ladies still do it for me, still make me want to stop dancing to just sit and watch them. The rest of them no longer impress me as much (because I've gotten better I imagine).

But on the flip side, I wonder how many other beginners for whom my dancing has done the same? Would I be one of their 2 or one of their lost 8?? :o :P

I totally relate to your post Bskin.
There were leaders/followers that I really looked up to (even a few months ago), that while I still respect their craft, it does not have the same impact for me. It seems like they do not really improve anymore (and in fairness they may be quite content with their current level-and not like us salsa addicts!). I've passed many of them in skill, and the ones I haven't, I can easily break down what they do, and it's lost that "magic" for me (almost like when Neo could see the "code" in the Matrix-things slowed down).

Now my eyes and aspirations are fixed on the next tier(s) of dancers (the ones that seem to rarely go out!). I can still for the most part mentally break down what they do, but I have no hope of replicating it currently, and that's the big difference! They are just awesome. And it's not really about the super complilcated patterns, it's how they make the basic step look other wordly, their musicality, etc...

[Swannie]

Fast forward a couple of years, and that original list of maybe 10 ladies, has dwindled down to about 2. :lol: Only 2 of those original ladies still do it for me, still make me want to stop dancing to just sit and watch them. The rest of them no longer impress me as much (because I've gotten better I imagine).

But on the flip side, I wonder how many other beginners for whom my dancing has done the same? Would I be one of their 2 or one of their lost 8?? :o :P

Well, in terms of local leaders there are about 3 non-instructors and 3 instructors who I really enjoy watching. When I watch them I just smile. The energy and connection when they are dancing with the right partners is amazing. Some of these guys were the first guys I saw. Most of the other guys that I saw when I started and thought "wow, nice", I just don't get that anymore.

I'd love to be anyone's inspiration, even if they realised how un-great I was after a few weeks :D

In terms of improvement, quite a few people on the scene seem to think I have been dancing a lot longer than I have - they keep asking me if I went to an event that was on this time last year... uhh, nope, not been dancing that long!

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

You know you have improved when...

Places where you used to go and dance, now have you on their guest list!

A promoter refers to you as "Celebrity Teachers" (It really happened to us, honest! Trisha and I looked at each other afterwards and burst out laughing!)

Places where you used to go and dance, now invite you back to teach there

You can demonstrate moves at high speed but it still seems like you have all the time in the world.

A dance partner looks at you just after you've led a move or turn pattern they had no idea they could do and shakes their head in disbelief.

One last one...
When you start to realise how much, much more you could yet improve...

[sababa]

And just keep facts apart from fiction i really do get the feeling that they're dying for a dance with me.

Sorry if my post implied I didn't believe you! I just wanted to share my own impressions of the dynamics in my scene. Obviously I can't speak for yours!
(But again, my scene is fairly large so I don't know how many people are 'dying' for dances with anybody, as there's always another excellent partner available. I'm certainly not. The people I most like to dance with are usually also the ones who most like to dance with me! so it works out! :) )

You have nothing to be sorry about. I'm glad that you get your share of dance too.

[AndrewS]

One last one...
When you start to realise how much, much more you could yet improve...

Oh yeah, I HATE that one. I know x number of moves and shines and there are 50x still to learn. And the styling could be improved and the musical interpretation...it's a never-ending learning curve :cry: but the journey is fun :D

[MacMoto]

One last one...
When you start to realise how much, much more you could yet improve...
Don't get me started on this one... the more I dance, the more I realise how poor my basic technique is. I seem to feel worse about my dancing the more I work on it even though people keep telling me I'm improving :cry:.

I will let you know when I actually feel I've improved... :(

[sababa]

One last one...
When you start to realise how much, much more you could yet improve...
Don't get me started on this one... the more I dance, the more I realise how poor my basic technique is. I seem to feel worse about my dancing the more I work on it even though people keep telling me I'm improving :cry:.

I will let you know when I actually feel I've improved... :(

Isn't it just awful to be both a salsero and a perfectionist?

[noobster]

- leaders say "I love you" or "you are a genius" after a dance ( :shock: )

- onlookers (non-dancers obviously) cheer and ask if you are an instructor (:roll: - if they'd take three lessons or just show up to Jimmy's one night they'd know the clear difference)

- some random dude says "I've been watching you for months and you've become a great dancer" (hey creepy, what's with the voyeurism? salsa is not a spectator sport! play ball or get off the field)

- you suddenly realize it's been a long time since you saw that bored look in anybody's eyes when they dance with you

- leaders realize they can dip, spin, and lift you and suddenly all of them want on the bandwagon (I lurrrrve dips, luckily it looks like the guys lurve to dip me too as I got a bunch of great ones in tonight - gonna have to wash my hair though cuz it kept sweeping the floor)

I had an awesome night, can you tell? :D
(It always helps to visit a leader-heavy venue, heh)

[pr]

:cheers: noobster! :D

[sweavo]

- some random dude says "I've been watching you for months and you've become a great dancer" (hey creepy, what's with the voyeurism? salsa is not a spectator sport! play ball or get off the field)


It's not? Why am I doing it then? Surely ... Not ... for my ... partner? :-)

[azzey]

You know you've improved in your Cuban style...

When Cuban women no longer say 'You are a good dancer, but...' and point out how you can improve, now they just say 'You are a good dancer', smile and ask when I'm coming out next.

When I was dancing Reggaeton the other night and got a couple of appreciative looks. One girl asked me to teach her something (Reggaeton is not my thing btw).

When I feel I have more than enough Rumba, musical interpretation, moves, improvisations to fill a whole night and I'm quite happy just to tone it down a bit.

.. and when you completely nail a styling move you've been working on for a while. The one where Seo Fernandez does a Dile Que No, stops the girl and bends all the way back with arm out-stretched over his head.

youtube.com/watch?v=jUp5NwOEwXI

Now just gotta improve my posture and body-movement...
and on to the helicopter move! (see video near the end hehe).

[sababa]

You watch yourself in a video and can't believe that it's you.

[lolita]

Your partner kisses your hand and says thank you...that was a blast !
by the end of every dance your partner has this big smile on his face
being able to play , hijack, and tease ur partner without them getting bored !

[azzey]

When different Latino guys and girls come up to me to tell me what a good dancer I am. :oops:

This is starting to become a weekly occurance! :shock: 8)

A guy from Cuba last week and a guy from Chile last night.

They usually ask where I learned to dance and are suprised when I say I am from England.

[Swannie]

When different Latino guys and girls come up to me to tell me what a good dancer I am. :oops:

This is starting to become a weekly occurance! :shock: 8)

A guy from Cuba last week and a guy from Chile last night.

They usually ask where I learned to dance and are suprised when I say I am from England.

Hahah, that's freaking awesome!

[DeeplyDippy]

For a bit of fun last night, I asked every girl for 2 dances, also asking if I could dip them.

Everyone said yes :D

[cnayan]

1. A classmate (who started with me about 6 months back and is dancing very good now) told me that she likes to dance with me because I handle her gently while other guys in the class almost manhandle girls. :? Well, that's just my style.. nothing special. :)

2. "...you dance like those guys in the videos!"
while watching some videos from Salsa competitions around the world. I hope I won the championship :lol: ;)

Nayan

[AndrewD]

1. A classmate (who started with me about 6 months back and is dancing very good now) told me that she likes to dance with me because I handle her gently while other guys in the class almost manhandle girls. :? Well, that's just my style.. nothing special. :)

2. "...you dance like those guys in the videos!"
while watching some videos from Salsa competitions around the world. I hope I won the championship :lol: ;)

Nayan

Welcome to the Forums!

Being a popular leader is always a sign that you’re doing something right :D

[cnayan]

Welcome to the Forums!

Being a popular leader is always a sign that you’re doing something right :D

Thanks a lot! :)
I wanted to join this forum long time back.

[chrisk]

Welcome cnayan!

And it's always a good sign if a girl likes the way you are leading.

[azzey]

Welcome Nayan!

[Jambo]

A big warm welcome and a hello from me too Nayan :D

[sac]

1. A classmate (who started with me about 6 months back and is dancing very good now) told me that she likes to dance with me because I handle her gently while other guys in the class almost manhandle girls. :? Well, that's just my style.. nothing special. :)

2. "...you dance like those guys in the videos!"
while watching some videos from Salsa competitions around the world. I hope I won the championship :lol: ;)

Nayan

hey welcome aboard.keep it up

[cnayan]

Hey everyone!

Thank you very much for such warm welcome! :)

Have lots of fun dancing! :)

[Swannie]

1. A classmate (who started with me about 6 months back and is dancing very good now) told me that she likes to dance with me because I handle her gently while other guys in the class almost manhandle girls. :? Well, that's just my style.. nothing special. :)

2. "...you dance like those guys in the videos!"
while watching some videos from Salsa competitions around the world. I hope I won the championship :lol: ;)

Nayan

Welcome to SF Nayan...

I have a burning question - how is the salsa scene in Pune? I ask because the company I work for have an office there, and there is the potential for some of us to do placement/secondments there. If there is a good salsa scene (and maybe some good tai chi) I might be tempted. (Assuming that Pune has international cuisine, night clubs etc. too, but that is much easier information to find).

Cheers!

[cnayan]

Welcome to SF Nayan...

I have a burning question - how is the salsa scene in Pune? I ask because the company I work for have an office there, and there is the potential for some of us to do placement/secondments there. If there is a good salsa scene (and maybe some good tai chi) I might be tempted. (Assuming that Pune has international cuisine, night clubs etc. too, but that is much easier information to find).

Cheers!

Hi Swannie,
Please don't come to Pune just to dance Salsa.. or you will kill me for inviting you :?

I get to dance (dance? teach is better word) only on Saturdays. Once a week!! Can you imagine? Damn this place.
I haven't found many good dancers here as yet. But I am trying myself to educate people about latin dancing.

Actually, Mumbai (Bombay) is bit more happening than Pune and its 3 hrs drive from here. So, if you plan to dance, go to Mumbai on weekends.

I haven't done that since I am also new to Pune (only 2 months). I thought Pune has got good latin stuff going around. I really miss my old partners :(

[spencer]

yep swannie mumbai is the place to be for salsa in india!
we have quite a big set up here plus salsa sundays too!! :) u wont be disappointed i can bet u that!!!
hey nayan,u from pune?where do u teach??

[sac]

yep swannie mumbai is the place to be for salsa in india!
we have quite a big set up here plus salsa sundays too!! :) u wont be disappointed i can bet u that!!!
hey nayan,u from pune?where do u teach??

yup spencer is right:) cant wait to see u guys at MSF2007.....hardly 2 months left :lol:

[cnayan]

yep swannie mumbai is the place to be for salsa in india!
we have quite a big set up here plus salsa sundays too!! :) u wont be disappointed i can bet u that!!!
hey nayan,u from pune?where do u teach??

Hey Spencer!

Well, I don't exactly "teach" as in a dance school.. I guide people when salsa fans meet up on weekends here. I help them with reconstruction of their basics - because here I see : MAXIMUM people know fancy things but they look very odd dancing on the floor because their basics are not good and hardly understand terms "leading" and "following".

Those who actually teach here are doing not very good job. Sad but true.

How is Mumbai then? Are you from Mumbai?

[spencer]

yep im from mumbai :) and part of Salsa India Dance Company SIDC in short :)

[cnayan]

yep im from mumbai :) and part of Salsa India Dance Company SIDC in short :)

Wow! I heard they teach good Salsa over there. Sadly, they don't teach in Pune.

But Kaytee (one of the teachers of SIDC) is advertising that SIDC will teach in Pune. But when I called the number mentioned there, the guy who picked up - I knew him. And he is not that brilliant, I feel so.

So, any good teachers? :)

[spencer]

yes SIDC is really the best and kaytee is the owner/instructor/manager/CEO plus plus of SIDC :) lol
hmmm who teaches in pune?y dont u come in on a sunday to zenzi?

and i know when im improving when i can start doin salsa to lots of other music like reggaeton especially......when i start playin with music and the lady :) thats when i feel i have improved cause i get the rhythm,beat,and just the fun generally! :)

[azzey]

You know you've improved when...

Teachers from London and other countries ask if/where you teach. 8)

(Wondering how much longer I can avoid it.. :lol: )

[SalsaManiac]

You know you've improved when...

You receive 6 text messages in a row from different women wondering if you are going out dancing :P

[DeeplyDippy]

You know you've improved when...

You receive 6 text messages in a row from different women wondering if you are going out dancing :P
You're the man!

[AndrewS]

You know you've improved when...

You receive 6 text messages in a row from different women wondering if you are going out dancing :P

Wow! I don't even have six numbers.

[RugKutta]

You know you have improved when...

You watch salsa video clips and instead of saying to self "WOW...I wish I could dance like that!", you now say "That's hot...I'll use that move tonight!"

You are walking of the dancefloor after a dance and just before you reach the edge of the hardwood, you feel a lady's hand grab your arm and aggressively yet flattering-ly (yeah, that's a word ^_^) pull you back onto the floor.

You no longer find yourself intimidated to ask the guest instructors/performers to dance.

You no longer dance as if you are being tested or critiqued when you dance with more advanced or "celebrity" salseras.

Newbies turn you down, not because they don't want to dance with you, but because they're intimidated by you.

***You approach a lady who has her shoes and purse in her hand, obviously preparing to leave, to dance Bachata, and without any words exchanged she drops everything w/out hesitation and grabs your hand, following you to the dancefloor.***

***Edie the "Salsa FREAK" tells you you're the best lead she's had all night!***

[lolita]

You know you have improved when...

You watch salsa video clips and instead of saying to self "WOW...I wish I could dance like that!", you now say "That's hot...I'll use that move tonight!"

You are walking of the dancefloor after a dance and just before you reach the edge of the hardwood, you feel a lady's hand grab your arm and aggressively yet flattering-ly (yeah, that's a word ^_^) pull you back onto the floor.

You no longer find yourself intimidated to ask the guest instructors/performers to dance.

You no longer dance as if you are being tested or critiqued when you dance with more advanced or "celebrity" salseras.

Newbies turn you down, not because they don't want to dance with you, but because they're intimidated by you.

***You approach a lady who has her shoes and purse in her hand, obviously preparing to leave, to dance Bachata, and without any words exchanged she drops everything w/out hesitation and grabs your hand, following you to the dancefloor.***

***Edie the "Salsa FREAK" tells you you're the best lead she's had all night!***

When are we dancing??

[lolita]

When some strangers come up to you and say: you're the best dancer they've ever seen

[PropriedadDeClubDenbow]

You know you've improved when...

People keep asking who's your salsa teacher, cause they want to dance like you do 8)

[pr]

Very nice RugKutta!!! :cheers: :D

:cheers: to PropriedadDeClubDenbow also :P

[PropriedadDeClubDenbow]

pr tnx 8)

[irishgirl]

People you don't know say they have been watching you and compliment you on your dancing...

[SalsaGuy2006]

You know you've impoved when people say "you've improved".

[SalsaGuy2006]

You know you've impoved when you've improved and you know it.... :lol:

[MacMoto]

You know you've impoved when you've improved and you know it.... :lol:
I'm still waiting for the moment when I know I've improved... :?

[sweavo]

You know you've impoved when you've improved and you know it.... :lol:
I'm still waiting for the moment when I know I've improved... :?

I remember your first quad touch-and-go...

[MacMoto]

You know you've impoved when you've improved and you know it.... :lol:
I'm still waiting for the moment when I know I've improved... :?

I remember your first quad touch-and-go...
That was your lead ;)

[Jambo]

Sorry for going OT for a sec...but I didn't recognise Swaevo, saw the avatar and location and thought it must be Terence but then I noticed the words 'over fifty years' were missing from your posts.

Sorry Terence, just a bit of leg pulling ;)

[MacMoto]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

(Sorry Terence!)

[sweavo]

Sorry for going OT for a sec...but I didn't recognise Swaevo, saw the avatar and location and thought it must be Terence but then I noticed the words 'over fifty years' were missing from your posts.

Sorry Terence, just a bit of leg pulling ;)

Having posted for a number of years on a variety of message boards -- all genres -- I can tell you that leg pulling, or "joshing" to give it its proper term --- was around well before salsa forums, and even pre-dates the internet. :-P

[Jambo]

Having posted for a number of years on a variety of message boards -- all genres -- I can tell you that leg pulling, or "joshing" to give it its proper term --- was around well before salsa forums, and even pre-dates the internet. :-P


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/jambo_gill/gifs/36_11_6.gif

Stop it!!! A bit of wee nearly came out then!

[noobster]

Having posted for a number of years on a variety of message boards -- all genres -- I can tell you that leg pulling, or "joshing" to give it its proper term --- was around well before salsa forums, and even pre-dates the internet. :-P

swea:

" joshing "-- orig. known in Cu. as " bromeando "-- done by Latinos in the fift. to a 1, 2, 3, 72, 87 count-- in my day I judged many comps in this styl.-- unfort. the practice has been corrup. by inexp. " Teachers? " lacking " Sabor " and has bec. no more than a joke to the major.-- yo sabe!

:twisted:

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Having posted for a number of years on a variety of message boards -- all genres -- I can tell you that leg pulling, or "joshing" to give it its proper term --- was around well before salsa forums, and even pre-dates the internet. :-P

swea:

" joshing "-- orig. known in Cu. as " bromeando "-- done by Latinos in the fift. to a 1, 2, 3, 72, 87 count-- in my day I judged many comps in this styl.-- unfort. the practice has been corrup. by inexp. " Teachers? " lacking " Sabor " and has bec. no more than a joke to the major.-- yo sabe!

:twisted:
Is that yo sabe as in "Kim yo Sabe" original of founder of salsa in AFRICA before Cuba got involved at all? - Though you probably don't realise it, Kim Yo Sabe was his assumed AFRICAN name and he was actually christened Kim O'Saddy, a gentlemen from Harrogate, North Yorkshire (albeit of Irish descent) who, upon hearing the rhythm of the African drummers, decided he could modify some traditional Irish Jig footwork to fit without too much trouble...

[Jambo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/jambo_gill/gifs/36_11_6.gif

You're very naughty noobster!!!!! but the resemblance is remarkable :shock:

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Now y'll leave Terence alone, y'hear?

[Jambo]

Now y'll leave Terence alone, y'hear?

I know!!! I've been saying that for over fifty yrs!

[noobster]

Now y'll leave Terence alone, y'hear?
Oh, fine. Ruin our fun. Mom. :P ;)

Back to Improvement everybody, nothing to see here.

[azzey]

Now y'll leave Terence alone, y'hear?
Oh, fine. Ruin our fun. Mom. :P ;)

Aw.. and I didn't get a go! ;)

[Jambo]

I'm saying nothing at all :D

[Jambo]

Now y'll leave Terence alone, y'hear?
Oh, fine. Ruin our fun. Mom. :P ;)

Back to Improvement everybody, nothing to see here.


Oooops, are we on the improvement thread? :shock:

[noobster]

I can cope with the 'history of glue' which may accompany it ;)
Well, it starts with a young foal cantering across a sunlit meadow... and, well, you know the rest.

[noobster]

Oooops, are we on the improvement thread? :shock:

It's only in enormous letters across the top, dear. ;)

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Mods! Mods! They're all being very naughty! Tell them to stop it at once.

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

Right.
Your glue answer is on the wet sole thread.
Now play nicely, for goodness sake.

[noobster]

Right.
Your glue answer is on the wet sole thread.
Now play nicely, for goodness sake.
Ruh-roh. :shock:
*hides in closet and prepares to point finger at sweavo*

[Jambo]

Oooops, are we on the improvement thread? :shock:

It's only in enormous letters across the top, dear. ;)

Is that what that means?? :shock: Oh my!! How embarrassing :oops: Sorry folks.

[sweavo]

Right.
Your glue answer is on the wet sole thread.
Now play nicely, for goodness sake.
Ruh-roh. :shock:
*hides in closet and prepares to point finger at sweavo*

* looks all wide eyed and innocent and points at jambo *

[Jambo]

Don't point at me :shock: I said nowt ;)

[terence]

TCBD-- Am still laughing at your post :lol: :lol: --( and many of the others-- now dont make me come up _ or down -- there !! )

[azzey]

Don't point at me :shock: I said nowt ;)

* Holds a big arrow pointing down at Jambo *

[Jambo]

Congrats on your 100 posts Terence!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[terence]

Thanks--- I didn,t even realise

[azzey]

Congrats on your 100 posts Terence!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

At least someone's improved from all this hooha! :lol:

[Jambo]

What hooha :shock: have I missed something?

[UnlikelySalsero]

You know you have improved when:

<snip>

Would anyone else like to share theirs.....?

-I know it when someone I haven't seen in a while is surprised by my progress and they make a comment.

-When I was struggling with single spins and I'm now working on doubles and triples (landing some, with an occasional quad when everything is placed right and I find my center).

-When I noticed that spotting wasn't just an intellectual concept and is something I do most of the time when spinning (soon to be ALL the time).

-When I take a class and notice others are struggling with techniques that are now easy for me. (I see them and relate!) For months I was the worse or least experienced person in the classes, now others think it was easy for me!

-When I get invited to teach a class for an instructor who placed in the top three in the pro division at the Mayan. (I'm one of his subs.)

-When I go to a club and more than a few women say hello and make sure they are close enough that I have to ask them to dance or I'll feel rude.

Funny thing is, I often feel I'm not making progress as fast as I should, but I keep working at it everyday.

[Salsamakossa]

Jambo, I thought you said you said nothing :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now y'll leave Terence alone, y'hear?

I know!!! I've been saying that for over fifty yrs!

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

... You know you have improved when:

<snip>

Would anyone else like to share theirs.....?
When some who's dancing you really respect says it's easy with you because "When I dance with you, there's so much time in the dance" :)
And you know what she means, and there is.

[SalsaGuy2006]

You know you've impoved when you've improved and you know it.... :lol:
I'm still waiting for the moment when I know I've improved... :?

Don't worry, it'll come :D

[lolita]

when u see the smile u put on ur partners faces during the dance

[sababa]

You dance with the worst follows in the crowd to improve your lead.

[Flujo]

-When I take a class and notice others are struggling with techniques that are now easy for me. (I see them and relate!) For months I was the worse or least experienced person in the classes...<snip>!


Yeah! I've so been there. I used to get all stressed and embarrassed because I'd completely forget the routine and feel like a complete twit constantly apologizing for not having a clue, hehe :headwall: . That happens a lot less now :)

[UnlikelySalsero]

-When I take a class and notice others are struggling with techniques that are now easy for me. (I see them and relate!) For months I was the worse or least experienced person in the classes...<snip>!


Yeah! I've so been there. I used to get all stressed and embarrassed because I'd completely forget the routine and feel like a complete twit constantly apologizing for not having a clue, hehe :headwall: . That happens a lot less now :)

It still happens to me often enough because I've started taking jazz classes. In those classes I'm now toward the bottom of the heap and get a regular serving of humble pie. (Some fundamental techniques are getting MUCH better, but the routines regularly blow me away...)

(BRAG ALERT): I know I'm improving when I get asked to teach a class at one of my favorite clubs, and the other instructors are world-class dancers (Alex DaSilva, Walter Jones & Rodrigo Guzman). Very, very humbling!!!

[sagitta]

When you talk to someone who doesn't know much salsa as done over here in the states and she talks about dancing in central america/latin america. She says that here in the US is this salsa basic that she hasn't seen over there. That overseas it is the body moving to the music and not adherance to left and right on a particular beat at the expense of real dancing. Now I'm getting excited and tell her see...I do that...right? and she says...YES! Now I'm feeling puffed up and really happy.

Then this lady talks about how people dance and how many leaders want to put her and others through intricate twisting moves. That it is like torture.... I'm humbled as I do that...I think...at times...so I start apologizing to her and feeling really embarassed. Then she tells me...whatever you do is fine as you pay attention. I don't feel that way at all. I really enjoy myself. It's those other dancers! :-)

[ptwist]

last night was my first time going to a salsa club ....

and yeh i had 3 dances...2 with instructors teaching me and one with a pro....

i have a good hip hop background...learned salsa for awhile...and i notice the lil things that can ruin a dance ....
was sooooooooooo offfffff....and my partner had this bewildered look on her face and she seemed out of it ....So i ended the dance to save the misery

guess we all go through it right?

[Terremoto]

last night was my first time going to a salsa club ....

and yeh i had 3 dances...2 with instructors teaching me and one with a pro....

i have a good hip hop background...learned salsa for awhile...and i notice the lil things that can ruin a dance ....
was sooooooooooo offfffff....and my partner had this bewildered look on her face and she seemed out of it ....So i ended the dance to save the misery

guess we all go through it right?

Ptwist - yes, we all go through this learning phase!! And welcome to salsa forums!!

[ptwist]

ha thanks.....
i noticed

i was so worried about the moves...i had little care for the beat ...so it was like basic for a couple counts...thought about making a move then it didnt come out right...she didnt wanna perform alot of moves ...probably knowing i wasnt up for it

was watching my instructor with the same lady..and it seemed effortless....he was just having her on a string doing w/e he pleases....

im good on choreography salsa...because...well thats what hip hop is mostly about besides the free flow dance....basically give me an 8 count and ill master it..i know salsa has technique and trust....not to mention a good sense of the beat....and its strictly freestyle so i just wonder how they have that connection to pull them all off

well hopefully i learn...i would like to take classes... but for someone that has been trained in hip hop all his life..its back to newbie days again 8)

[chrisk]

Welcome ptwist!

Every time we start to learn something new, we are going to be newbies. But this is changing since you practice what you learned and start to understand it all. So starting taking classes and someday you might include some hip-hop moves into your salsa dancing. :)

And in my opinion it's normal that as a beginner, you are concerned about how and when to lead the move correctly. So your mind is focussed on the moves and you don't have much time left to worry about staying on beat. But if you continue dancing and practicing, it will change. You are going to focus more on the beat and the music, then the moves. The moves will become familiar and you will "automaticaly" lead them without thinking about how to.

[sweavo]

i was so worried about the moves...i had little care for the beat ...so it was like basic for a couple counts...thought about making a move then it didnt come out right...

well hopefully i learn...i would like to take classes... but for someone that has been trained in hip hop all his life..its back to newbie days again 8)

Hi ptwist!

You are experiencing Beginner Hell and we all (leaders) went through it (or are still going through it!) sounds like you will get through that stage quick since you have movement and rhythm in you from hip hop.

Sounds like the actual lead and follow is gonna be your main challenge, along with having to stick a bit more rigidly to the timing. The great thing is, once you crack that, your other skills will quickly mark you as something different from the other guys!

Most beginner guys worry too much about having lots of moves, just get a couple or three moves nailed to start with, and focus on your partner's comfort... oh yeah, and enjoy!

[ptwist]

thanx alot ...

yehhh i wanna put some hip hop into it ..but i felt i would be laughed at ....so really i jus wanna get the fundamentals of social down ....reading and being able to enjoy the beat and have good chemistry with any dance partner....

i knew many leaders had to experience this but ....man its been a long while since i felt so inferior on the dance floor lol :lol:

but thanks alot ....hopefully ill come back with some more positive stories....
ill be around tho =)

[PropriedadDeClubDenbow]

ptwist, welcome to SF! :D

[chrisk]

yehhh i wanna put some hip hop into it ..but i felt i would be laughed at ....so really i jus wanna get the fundamentals of social down ....reading and being able to enjoy the beat and have good chemistry with any dance partner....


I don't think you would be laughed if you add just the right amount of hip hop. I've seen quite some videos of Ismael Otero adding some hip hop or break-dancing moves to his salsa. And in my opnion it still looks good when he's dancing. You might look at some of his videos on youtube or other websites.

[tj]

Al Espinoza is quite well known for adding his hip hop background to his salsa dancing.

[Swannie]

It still happens to me often enough because I've started taking jazz classes. In those classes I'm now toward the bottom of the heap and get a regular serving of humble pie. (Some fundamental techniques are getting MUCH better, but the routines regularly blow me away...)

Ohh man, I know what you mean in my Street Dance/Street Jazz class. Even though it's beginners class, a lot of the ladies have prior ballet/dance experience from their formative years - and it shows. Certainly I would have quit if I hadn't had salsa/martial arts experience (well, I wouldn't have signed up without it!).

[Flujo]

(BRAG ALERT): I know I'm improving when I get asked to teach a class at one of my favorite clubs, and the other instructors are world-class dancers (Alex DaSilva, Walter Jones & Rodrigo Guzman). Very, very humbling!!!

Nice! Go for it dude. It's your chance to share your passion with other people and give a little back :)

[La Bailarina Nueva]

I know that I have improved because most of my leaders this weekend laughed when I said I was a beginner and said that I was well into the intermediate stage :)

[ptwist]

holy moly that al espinoza is SICK
Link removed by moderator: Please use the VideoClips section to post live links to videos.

i would love to learn basic to advanced salsa first before adding my own hip hop touches...but yeh that was amazing...especially the beat

but uhm yeh guys thanx again...i went and did the social thing one more time and my partner i danced with last time said "your getting the idea much better"

i was more comfortable with the song ...and was able to hit it good on1 and tried not to worry about moves..although i still caught myself thinking about it ...but i created some situations where i feel comfortable next time to play with it and let the combos follow through

so progress? lol :o

[Swannie]

Last week I lead a salsa beginner (two lessons) with 6 months of jive experience through almost all of my moves with pretty good success.

And by leading I mean on time, with the music. I said I couldn't believe she only had two salsa classes, she told me she just picked up her timing from me, and that she knew what she was meant to do for most of my leads... it was great. Can't wait to dance with her again, but it confirms for me that my leads are getting quite nice.

[pr]

Welcome ptwist! :D

[Jolinia]

A beginner/improver couple at the social last Sunday showed me that I (and my dance partner from my class) have improved: they were watching us and tried to copy a move - it was the first time it ever happened and it felt so good :D

[AndrewS]

You don't really count any more. You just dance to the music. the down side of this is that I've found myself suddenly snap out of this mode and think "what number am I dancing on now?" I seem to drift from on1 to on2 occasionally now. Fortunately when it's happened my partners have been so good that they just follow and aren't bothered by the change.

Actually I'm not if this is a step forwards or backwards. Hopefully I'll come out the other side of this particular tunnel. Does anyone have any pointers?

[sweavo]

Actually I'm not if this is a step forwards or backwards. Hopefully I'll come out the other side of this particular tunnel. Does anyone have any pointers?

Heheh. Sounds good to me that you're not consciously counting. Stuff-ups will happen for a while but I'm sure they'll get less common as you habituate to the music. If you are in doubt, say to your partner "my timing's a bit wobbly these days, go ahead and tell me if I mess up" then you can relax and know that if you made a mistake it was too minor for your follow to be bothered by it.

[Salsamakossa]

It's a rite of passage when you are learning on2 after on1 or vice versa, so it is a step forward.

You don't really count any more. You just dance to the music. the down side of this is that I've found myself suddenly snap out of this mode and think "what number am I dancing on now?" I seem to drift from on1 to on2 occasionally now. Fortunately when it's happened my partners have been so good that they just follow and aren't bothered by the change.

Actually I'm not if this is a step forwards or backwards. Hopefully I'll come out the other side of this particular tunnel. Does anyone have any pointers?

[La Bailarina Nueva]

I moved up a level to intermediate classes tonight and met a new teacher. After dancing with me for a few seconds, he asked me, "are you a teacher or something?" My eyes were just like this: :shock:

Of course, I said no. He asked where I had been dancing and I said Boston. He told me that I had great body movement and to keep up the good work :D

[sac]

I moved up a level to intermediate classes tonight and met a new teacher. After dancing with me for a few seconds, he asked me, "are you a teacher or something?" My eyes were just like this: :shock:

Of course, I said no. He asked where I had been dancing and I said Boston. He told me that I had great body movement and to keep up the good work :D

Is it the same school? im surprised ur new instructor didnt see you before at the school or at the club?

[Flex]

I moved up a level to intermediate classes tonight and met a new teacher. After dancing with me for a few seconds, he asked me, "are you a teacher or something?" My eyes were just like this: :shock:

Of course, I said no. He asked where I had been dancing and I said Boston. He told me that I had great body movement and to keep up the good work :D

Attagirl!

Together with your terrific attitude to following, you're gonna be one of those everyone wants to dance with.

I've also had two really good social dances so far this week with new partners, one intermediate with great body movement who shows great promise but needs some technique, and another with a delightful experienced follower, light and responsive, who was just as thrilled to be doing a raft of nice playful moves with a stranger as I was to find a follower capable of doing them. Both of them were smiling happily throughout and having fun. So was I.

So guess who will be on my priority list for asking....? Both of them, of course.

[La Bailarina Nueva]

Is it the same school? im surprised ur new instructor didnt see you before at the school or at the club?

I had only attended two classes at this studio. In fact, only two classes in any studio. I have been learning salsa for the past couple weeks by being "tossed into the deep water" in the biggest salsa club in Boston, and with the very generous help of witchphd!

[Flex]

OK.

You know you have improved when...

....You can dance a whole track without fouling up even once. God! - I still remember that dance and the name of the lady, even after many years.

....it gets easier

....you can have a conversation while freestyling turn patterns

....your partner of the dance says: 'It seems so easy with you' (I love that one)

... you find old favourite tracks far too slow (except for lovely salsa romantica tracks...)

... A partner in advanced class says: ' with you it feels like dancing...'

... you realise that there are really only about sixteen positions in salsa and the rest is just endless variation on ways to get there and a bit of style

... you have time to be playful with your partner

... you almost always have a plan B so your partner never knows they loused up the move you intended

Well, those were some of my fondly remembered milestones on a never-ending journey!

[PropriedadDeClubDenbow]

OK.

You know you have improved when...

....You can dance a whole track without fouling up even once. God! - I still remember that dance and the name of the lady, even after many years.

....it gets easier

....you can have a conversation while freestyling turn patterns

....your partner of the dance says: 'It seems so easy with you' (I love that one)

... you find old favourite tracks far too slow (except for lovely salsa romantica tracks...)

... A partner in advanced class says: ' with you it feels like dancing...'

... you realise that there are really only about sixteen positions in salsa and the rest is just endless variation on ways to get there and a bit of style

... you have time to be playful with your partner

... you almost always have a plan B so your partner never knows they loused up the move you intended

Well, those were some of my fondly remembered milestones on a never-ending journey!

:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

[SnowDancer]

... you do a back-spot turn with a beginner and she gets a big smile on her face.

...you enter a salsa club, and the women no longer run screaming for the exits. :D

[sweavo]

OK.
....you can have a conversation while freestyling turn patterns


Yeah! I remember this starting to happen! And last Tue I was chatting to a girl and it made her basic go wobbly. Thought I'd better shush and let her concentrate!


... you realise that there are really only about sixteen positions in salsa and the rest is just endless variation on ways to get there and a bit of style


Oh thank God for that! I was beginning to think it was me!

[Salseradvocate]

When you realise that you *do* have time to style

When the leaders at your regular place, who used to dance with you once every 2 weeks to be kind, dance with you twice in a night

(personal memoir of shame and inspiration all in one) Having changed to xbody after starting cuban style, and after 3 months of blood, sweat, tears and privates, I danced with a guy I had danced with a few times before, and who I previously could not follow AT ALL. So great was the transformation, he thought we'd never met :oops: and afterwards he gave me a very long thoughtful look and said 'yeah, I really liked that'

[SalsaManiac]

...you enter a salsa club, and the women no longer run screaming for the exits. :D

Woot .. I guess I am getting better then :D

[MacMoto]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.

[TheBear_CanDanceToo]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.Maybe the feeling of cr@ppiness was because of cr@ppy leads on Monday? :)

[sweavo]

Water does not 'feel' crappier when it is in a bucket than when it is in a river ... it just reflects the shape of its container...

[AndrewD]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.

Every experienced follower I know, really rates SoS for the quality of dancing. Whereas they invariably say Bar Salsa is a bit more hit and miss (I think it helps if you're a regular).

Sorry I couldn't make it to either night, I would have loved to dance with you - did you meet AndrewS?

[Salseradvocate]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.

Question for discussion: is better fault tolerance a mark of improvement (for followers)? Or should you judge yourself by how you follow good leaders? One way I know that I am improving is because I can see changes in how I dance with the more experienced leaders at my local. But I have always been, and remain, dire at following inexperienced leaders. In particular I have real problems dancing with people who are off the beat, possibly because finding the beat is the only thing that ever came instinctively to me. It can pretty much stop me in my tracks.

Some of my frinds are evangelical about the importance of learning to follow anyone, not just the good dancers, saying anyone can follow a great dancer. But my first teacher's mantra was 'no lead, no follow'. For better or worse, that's stuck with me....

[tj]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.

Question for discussion: is better fault tolerance a mark of improvement (for followers)? Or should you judge yourself by how you follow good leaders? One way I know that I am improving is because I can see changes in how I dance with the more experienced leaders at my local. But I have always been, and remain, dire at following inexperienced leaders. In particular I have real problems dancing with people who are off the beat, possibly because finding the beat is the only thing that ever came instinctively to me. It can pretty much stop me in my tracks.

Some of my frinds are evangelical about the importance of learning to follow anyone, not just the good dancers, saying anyone can follow a great dancer. But my first teacher's mantra was 'no lead, no follow'. For better or worse, that's stuck with me....

Yeah, I'd think staying on beat to be the important part. I know this one particular Follow who tends to finish moves about a 1/2 beat late. And while I could lead her into the next move immediately, it would result in being a full beat off. Instead, I tend to reset (styling, etc), get us back on beat, and continue. As a result, our dancing tends to be really choppy, and it's pretty much impossible to get a good groove going together.

I do see her dancing with others, and several tend to just power her thru stuff, and not really do anything on beat. I will say that it looks better than the dances that I have with her.

[terence]

First-- anyone, cannot follow a great dancer.

every teacher in the world will tell you how many times he has heard the following -- " just lead me , I can follow anything "

I had the same response from a Prof. colleague recently, who made the same statement, when I was introducing a new genre. Suffice to say-- it was NOT the case ! .
I believe what you are experencing is a " comfort " zone, when being led by an experienced dancer.

As most teachers will tell you, when they dance with students ( the ones who do not know them ) invariably respond with the " you are so easy to follow " remark .

Following and leading skills , are developed over a very long period of time . So-- dont get too concerned about perfection every time you dance -- its happened to all of us at sometime or other in our dance careers .------ Patience will be rewarded .

[tj]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.
And as the others are saying/suggesting, you're being too hard on yourself!

[Salseradvocate]

Yeah, I'd think staying on beat to be the important part. I know this one particular Follow who tends to finish moves about a 1/2 beat late. And while I could lead her into the next move immediately, it would result in being a full beat off. Instead, I tend to reset (styling, etc), get us back on beat, and continue. As a result, our dancing tends to be really choppy, and it's pretty much impossible to get a good groove going together.

I do see her dancing with others, and several tend to just power her thru stuff, and not really do anything on beat. I will say that it looks better than the dances that I have with her.

You clearly have good fault tolerance if you have a repetoire of moves to get a follower back on track when she's off beat. I know people have suggested on other threads that a skilled leader can coolly act like it's what they meant after a wrong follow instead of just :shock:

Do you think your follower realises what you're doing? Or appreciates it? I'm not sure the other leaders are helping her in the long term as it isn't showing her how to stay on the beat, though it may feel to her like a better dance short term. I've found a big issue with poor fault tolerance is the reaction of the faultster. I try not to walk through a routine in class as I figure it helps neither of us, but sometimes the evil looks are depressing, like 'the last girl did it, so why not this ****?!'

Maybe you can measure improvement as a follower by how well you fulfil the potential offered by the lead. A less good lead will have limited potential (eg if they don't let you go for a shine break you can't shine), so even if you dance to your best ability the dance will feel only ok (perhaps the Bar Salsa situation, MacMoto?). Whereas with a good lead, though obviously you might still mess up, the potential is there to have a better dance.

[Swannie]

In particular I have real problems dancing with people who are off the beat, possibly because finding the beat is the only thing that ever came instinctively to me. It can pretty much stop me in my tracks.

Some of my frinds are evangelical about the importance of learning to follow anyone, not just the good dancers, saying anyone can follow a great dancer. But my first teacher's mantra was 'no lead, no follow'. For better or worse, that's stuck with me....

Personally I don't think you should invest effort into learning to follow off time. There is so much more you could learn, this would be such a waste of time.

[tj]

You clearly have good fault tolerance if you have a repetoire of moves to get a follower back on track when she's off beat. I know people have suggested on other threads that a skilled leader can coolly act like it's what they meant after a wrong follow instead of just :shock:
Thank you.

I'm probably making it sound more complicated than what I mean. Basically it's something simple like a hair drape or spin myself and then emphasizing to her where I think the '1' is. Nothing complex.


Do you think your follower realises what you're doing? Or appreciates it? I'm not sure the other leaders are helping her in the long term as it isn't showing her how to stay on the beat, though it may feel to her like a better dance short term.

I don't know what she thinks actually. She dances much more complicated patterns with others, and probably knows that I'm not leading her thru complicated stuff that I will do with others. She seems to be a really nice person too, which makes it awkward as well. If we were on better terms I'd ask her aside and try to work on it in a remote corner of the club, but the dynamic between us being the way it is, I don't think that's possible presently.

I try not to walk through a routine in class as I figure it helps neither of us, but sometimes the evil looks are depressing, like 'the last girl did it, so why not this ****?!'

Human nature. Stemming from the insecurity of a Lead...

[Salseradvocate]

In particular I have real problems dancing with people who are off the beat, possibly because finding the beat is the only thing that ever came instinctively to me. It can pretty much stop me in my tracks.

Some of my frinds are evangelical about the importance of learning to follow anyone, not just the good dancers, saying anyone can follow a great dancer. But my first teacher's mantra was 'no lead, no follow'. For better or worse, that's stuck with me....

Personally I don't think you should invest effort into learning to follow off time. There is so much more you could learn, this would be such a waste of time.

I certainly don't, and won't, do that! My point was that some followers seem to be able to sail on through the moves anyway - I don't know how they do it. I can't do the most basic move if the timing is off. On one level it's a case of 'so what' as it is (just for once) not my problem, but like tj was saying, it makes for a choppy dance.

[Salseradvocate]

Thank you.

I'm probably making it sound more complicated than what I mean. Basically it's something simple like a hair drape or spin myself and then emphasizing to her where I think the '1' is. Nothing complex.

Not at all. It's knowing when to deploy the simple stuff. and it's a *lot* kinder than counting aloud.


I don't know what she thinks actually. She dances much more complicated patterns with others, and probably knows that I'm not leading her thru complicated stuff that I will do with others. She seems to be a really nice person too, which makes it awkward as well. If we were on better terms I'd ask her aside and try to work on it in a remote corner of the club, but the dynamic between us being the way it is, I don't think that's possible presently.



It's a tough one. I know as a total newbie I used to enjoy people who led me through more moves as it made me feel like I was actually getting somewhere, when probably the reverse was true. Oddly enough, some of them now feel like very heavy leads, so it may be that I could follow them at the outset because they strong-armed me through.

The best is when you realise that the leader who used to lead you only in simple stuff is now trying out his new moves on you. Happy day! It's happened once or twice...

[UnlikelySalsero]

I still don't know...

I went to SOS on Sunday and thought I've improved -- I thought I was generally following better (than the last time I was there anyway).

Then I went to Bar Salsa on Monday and I was back to my cr@ppy self :(. I now think the feeling of improvement on Sunday was probably more to do with better leads than improved me.

Oh... I can name that tune. You are totally normal!!!

I go out one night and everything is great. My partners and I are having a great time. The next night things are off. My partners seem like they can't wait for the song to end so they can dance with someone else.

There are a few factors in play:
1) Getting better is a gradual process, it happens over weeks and months and we can't get too excited or depressed about any one night. (It never hurts to pat yourself on the back when things go well, but there is a balance.)

2) Everybody has down nights, that doesn't mean we are not improving, it just means we haven't danced enough for our gains to always show up consistently.

3) There are so many external factors involved, no two nights can be directly compared. Different partners, different floors, did we eat/drink enough before dancing, are we tired, etc. Some nights a few factors are going to work against us.

4) Even when we think we are worse, others often see us as better. As we improve our standards of what we consider good vs. just OK changes.

There's more, but don't beat yourself up for a down night. It happens to everybody and the trick is to keep dancing. We all have our down nights, even though overall we are improving.

[UnlikelySalsero]

<snip>
Question for discussion: is better fault tolerance a mark of improvement (for followers)? Or should you judge yourself by how you follow good leaders? One way I know that I am improving is because I can see changes in how I dance with the more experienced leaders at my local. But I have always been, and remain, dire at following inexperienced leaders. In particular I have real problems dancing with people who are off the beat, possibly because finding the beat is the only thing that ever came instinctively to me. It can pretty much stop me in my tracks.

Some of my frinds are evangelical about the importance of learning to follow anyone, not just the good dancers, saying anyone can follow a great dancer. But my first teacher's mantra was 'no lead, no follow'. For better or worse, that's stuck with me....

Fault tolerance is the mark of improvement for both leads and follows. As we mature, we have the ability to find a plan B/C/D based on what our partner does.

Like driving the car... I know where I want to go, but the exact lane or route will vary based on the other traffic and what they are doing. I may even have to turn the wrong direction and then turn around occasionally. Or just go around the block.

As a lead, I always want to cover for my follow if we miss something. My goal is she never knows she missed something. Just as often, I may provide an unclear lead and so she does something unexpected. As I mature I get better at recovery, but it's a process and if it doesn't work in one instance, I try to laugh it off, maybe going around the block and restarting.

The one thing to avoid is getting visibly frustrated with the less experienced partners. Smile as much as practical and possibly avoid them until they mature a little more if they ask too many times. (I always dance with beginners, but I am balanced and won't do two or three in a night as a rule, unless I know them or we have another social connection.)

As long as you are aware that is what you want to do, I don't think direct practice is required. The more you dance with different leads, including those off-beat, the more you'll figure out strategies to deal with whatever happens. As your dancing gets stronger, you have more mental bandwidth to deal with your partners weaknesses.

It's hard to generalize the specifics because everything depends on WHAT your partner is missing/doing.

(PLUG ALERT: I wrote a short article on this subject last month: http://www.unlikelysalsero.com/2007/06/hide-evidence-cover-for-your-partner.html)

[Salseradvocate]

Fault tolerance is the mark of improvement for both leads and follows. As we mature, we have the ability to find a plan B/C/D based on what our partner does.

Like driving the car... I know where I want to go, but the exact lane or route will vary based on the other traffic and what they are doing. I may even have to turn the wrong direction and then turn around occasionally. Or just go around the block.

As a lead, I always want to cover for my follow if we miss something. My goal is she never knows she missed something. Just as often, I may provide an unclear lead and so she does something unexpected. As I mature I get better at recovery, but it's a process and if it doesn't work in one instance, I try to laugh it off, maybe going around the block and restarting.

The one thing to avoid is getting visibly frustrated with the less experienced partners. Smile as much as practical and possibly avoid them until they mature a little more if they ask too many times. (I always dance with beginners, but I am balanced and won't do two or three in a night as a rule, unless I know them or we have another social connection.)

As long as you are aware that is what you want to do, I don't think direct practice is required. The more you dance with different leads, including those off-beat, the more you'll figure out strategies to deal with whatever happens. As your dancing gets stronger, you have more mental bandwidth to deal with your partners weaknesses.

It's hard to generalize the specifics because everything depends on WHAT your partner is missing/doing.

(PLUG ALERT: I wrote a short article on this subject last month: http://www.unlikelysalsero.com/2007/06/hide-evidence-cover-for-your-partner.html)

Thanks for the wise words and also for the link - liked the site, I will browse more there later :D

[Swannie]

I guess I must have improved. I got a ton of compliments last night. Had a wonderful night of dancing... still on the high 12 hours later. One of the best every nights I've had of salsa.

I mentioned the compliments to one of my friends and she said "oh yeah, people have mentioned you tonight"... uhh, what? Apparently people