Grupo Niche and racism?!?!???

[djpatricio]

OK, this is something that's been bugging me for years, so just out of curiosity, I'm asking everyone here for an opinion...

Several years ago, on a drive down to Miami to meet the parents of a woman I was seeing, who was 1/2 PRican and 1/2 Cuban (no apparent Afro-Latin genes, she was pretty much a "white Latina"), I put on a tape (I told you it was YEARS ago) of Grupo Niche, and when the song "La Negra No Quiere" came on, she suddenly turned off the stereo and announced to me that she was refusing to listen to "that racist song"!!!

I'll admit, I am still not fluent in Spanish, although I can do OK on the street and on vacation, but at that time I just had to take her word for it that the song was "racist", due to the lyrics of, in her words, getting the "negra" to dance by "hitting her with the stick", and "poking her with the sharp point of the stick". I suppose this could make sense, as the coro goes "con la punto del palo"...etc...but I still can't make out all the lyrics and especially the nuances of the inspiraciones, so I don't what to think of her original assesment of racism.

BUT...as I pointed out to her then, at that time, the majority of the members of Grupo Niche were what we would call, by general appearance, "black people", and more specifically and instructively, Afro-Colombians. She said that didn't matter, the song was still "racist". Who knows, maybe she was right, but I still think that would be odd (not that black people can't be racist too).

My weak point here is that I don't get all the lyrics of the song, and therefore, I can't make an informed, independent judgement on this. By the way, I LOVE the song, and I think it's a Niche classic, but I've avoided playing the song heavily so as not to offend anyone unintentionally (although I have played it in years past with no complaints).

Any insights or opinions on this would be appreciated. And BTW, I LOVE Niche!

[Jones, Nikka]

Sexist? Hell yes.
Racist? No way. In most Latin-American countries "negra" is just another way of saying "girl" It has no racist connotation.

[djpatricio]

Sexist? Hell yes.
Racist? No way. In most Latin-American countries "negra" is just another way of saying "girl" It has no racist connotation.

Ok, then how exactly is it sexist? I often hit my woman with a sharp stick to make her dance.

JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, I hope you have a sense of humor...so then, what else in the lyrics suggests sexism? I get the hitting the negra with a sharp stick part. Anything more subtle in the lyrics or the inspiraciones?

[Rey de la Pista]

well i am a black puerto rican and i would have to say that i would fundamentally disagree w/ her interpretation of the song as racist. unless perhaps i am unenlightened, it seems like a complete misinterpretation of its lyrics. it especially surprises me that she would take it that way because puerto ricans, when we call someone "negra" it's not just because they are a woman. "negra" is usually reserved for a woman you love or respect, or women are called "negrita" because they are generally loved by those around them (family, community, friends).

in the song grupo niche is just talking about "a woman" in a general sense. the fact that she is "una negra" is mere happenstance. they could have just as well said "la rubia" or "la morena," etc. also, as patricio pointed out, grupo niche is composed of "negros" therefore it is even more likely that they are going to sing about their "negra." as such, i have to disagree with the notion that the song is racist.

another question...
i've always wondered, and i'm not sure... but i have also often wondered if the word "niche" means the same in colombia as it does in puerto rico. not used as much today, "back in the day" niche meant "black person." in fact, you have probably even heard this used most familiarly in ismael rivera's "el niche" ( yo soy un niche... ).
why do i ask all of this? it's been a running joke in my head for a long time that tito gomez was grupo niche's original lead singer. (yes, a long long time ago) i find the irony hilarious, lol.

[alindo]

Hi djpatricio,
Like Nikka already said, the term "negra" doesn't have the same connotation "AND" interpretation that the same term might have in the US and some other countries. That's the reason why this word is so widely used in lyrics for Salsa songs. The late Celia Cruz was a person who was very much proud of her heritage and who she was and she very often referred to herself while singing as "esta negra" ("this black woman") and I am sure you are familiar with one of her last hits "La negra tiene tumbao" and if you have seen the music video for this song you'll see as a central character a gorgeous "negra" who has hipnotized white,black and brown guys alike with her beauty.
So, again, the opinion that a person has about a song doesn't make it so, if we had to label Salsa songs as racist by the use of the words "negra", "negro","negrita",etc. we would have to ban a large percentage of Salsa hits which include them.
Also, for El Rey de la Pista, "niche" means "negro" in the part of the world where I originally come from (Nicaragua). So, chances are that in Colombia niche means the same thing.

[PielCanela]

racism ?? I disagree,

my grandmother used to call me and my father, negro, or negrito, or mi negro. and we are what you will call white ( I prefer brown) Latinos.

So in this case the expression itself is not derogatory and rather a loving term that people used in Latin America.

Not to say that as we become more sensible as a society to the feelings of other peoples or groups that we should watch out what we say and make sure we are not offending people unintentionally, but to call that song racist I think is a complete misunderstanding of the Latino culture that exists outside of the USA borders.

I also agree with Nikka, that the song is sexist, that is unfortunate, and a disgraceful element that has permeate and continues to permeate the music world.

[NYguero]

I agree with the above said... I dont know the lyrics of this particular song, but a lot of songs are full of second meanings. You do the math: sexist lyric + "hitting with the pointy stick" = ? You figure out what it means ;)

As for this being a bad thing? please... we keep on discussing the sensuality of the dance, the sexual meaning in it's origins (the vanucao in rumba, for instance)...
Don't be offended by lyrics with sexual connotation... that would be totally missing the latin culture, trying to analyse it with the sterile eye of ridiculous political correctiness that characterizes the US society today.

did you guys ever listen to "el raton" by cheo feliciano?
________

[djpatricio]

Seems like she might have been a little off-base thinking the song was racist, which was my hunch too. I didn't think it could be because of the word "negra", especially since I'm fully aware of it's non-racist and affectionate connotation. I mean, I call my mom "negra" - she's South American. Her parents used to call each other "Chinita" and "Chinito" and of course that dosen't imply any anti-Chinese racism, but sometimes it's hard to explain these things to people who aren't familiar with Latin culture outside of the US, as PielCanela says. I was more thinking that I was missing something in the lyrics that I couldn't understand.

[djpatricio]

I agree with the above said... I dont know the lyrics of this particular song, but a lot of songs are full of second meanings. You do the math: sexist lyric + "hitting with the pointy stick" = ? You figure out what it means ;)

As for this being a bad thing? please... we keep on discussing the sensuality of the dance, the sexual meaning in it's origins (the vanucao in rumba, for instance)...
Don't be offended by lyrics with sexual connotation... that would be totally missing the latin culture, trying to analyse it with the sterile eye of ridiculous political correctiness that characterizes the US society today.

:shock: Ohhhhhhhh...I'm a little slow to catch on but now I see the double meaning here. That's pretty funny. I kind of agree with your view of political correctness in the US, kinda takes the fun away sometimes. And yes, about the vacunao in the guaguanco, that's all about sex (but not necessisarily sexist), but what are we going to do, ban the guaguanco because of that??? I guess it's easy for me to say this because I'm a guy, but I do think that you lose something when you view things through the PC lens all the time.

[akbernier]

I grew up in the Virgin Islands, which is pretty close to Puerto Rico, there are lots of Puerto Ricans and Domincans there. In fact my kids father is Puerto Rican and my step mother is Dominican. So i have always had exposure to the spanish culture/language although i dont understand it very well. Can someone translate this song for me? I grew up loving ths song. I dont know the name of it. Maybe "el negro"? any way the chorus says something like... mami que sera lo quiere el negro... I never really new what the song was saying being that i dont speak spanish. In fact i thought they were saying alegro :lol: just recently i became friends with a puerto rican lady that just moved from PR and she was trying to interpret the song for me but it sounded pretty racist what she was saying. I dont think the song would be played if that where true. When i was a teen that song came on the radio all day everyday. I still love it. Infact I heard it on the radio Friday.

[borikenSalsero]

I grew up in the Virgin Islands, which is pretty close to Puerto Rico, there are lots of Puerto Ricans and Domincans there. In fact my kids father is Puerto Rican and my step mother is Dominican. So i have always had exposure to the spanish culture/language although i dont understand it very well. Can someone translate this song for me? I grew up loving ths song. I dont know the name of it. Maybe "el negro"? any way the chorus says something like... mami que sera lo quiere el negro... I never really new what the song was saying being that i dont speak spanish. In fact i thought they were saying alegro :lol: just recently i became friends with a puerto rican lady that just moved from PR and she was trying to interpret the song for me but it sounded pretty racist what she was saying. I dont think the song would be played if that where true. When i was a teen that song came on the radio all day everyday. I still love it. Infact I heard it on the radio Friday.

Nope, the song is not racist.
The very famous version is a merengue. It might have even been a bachata first. Let me see if I come across it.

I believe it is called, Que Sera Lo Que Quiere El Negro. I don't remember who sings it, but when I was a kid the song took over Puerto Rico. There is a second part to that song that states what the negro wants.

[akbernier]

I love that song. when it took over PR it took over St.thomas as well. yes, it is a merengue. It was late 80's, I think.

[alindo]

Hi,
That song was a very famous, I think still is or we wouldn't be talking about it, song back in the 80's I think? That song along with "Abusadora" were some of the colossal hits by Wilfredo Vargas, a tropical music band leader from the Dominican Republic. I think that he played mostly merengues as is expected from a Dominican. The lyrics I have mostly forgotten but the parts that I remember would translate roughly to this:

Mommy, the "negro" is mad (upset)
he wants a fight with me
go and tell my dad about it.
Mommy, I lie down nice and easy
I pull the blankets up from toes to head
and he pull thems down.
Mommy, I wonder what the "negro" wants.

So, that's just a part of the song, I can't remember all of it. Again, the "negro" connotation here is not racist, I don't think. There's a huge black community in Dominican Republic and Wilfrido Vargas is black or comes from black ancestry, if I'm not mistaken.

[irMaxSALSA]

Never mistaken anything in a salsa song to be derogatory.

Never forget that native spanish speaking people aren't politically correct.

lol

[lolita]

if i am loving the music and loving dancing to it... i wouldnt really pay attention for the meaning that might occur to me
i am one person who would always take things on the inside i.e( get the better meanin and the nastier of funnier one )

salsa and latin music in general has made people more connected to each others
when u dance, u dont care if ur dancing with a white, brown, black or a green creature!

[praecantricis]

....I might have a small problem with green....they could be mouldy!

[akbernier]

I didnt have a problem. I was just wanting to fianlly know what the song meant. I grew up listening to it and only knew bits and pieces of what it was saying. So for 25+ years i have been wondering what the song was about and every time i ask a spanish speaking person they tell me something different. I wanted to ask people that listen and dance to salsa because i knew they would give me the correct interpretation.

[flaco76]

The song's about a dude (sung in the first person) that likes la negra (a chick) and was going out with her and she doesn't want to dance or be with him anymore b/c she's "like a butterfly", flying around and landing on every flower she wishes to land on.

the thing about "el palo"....remember, Latinos have a tendancy to "play with words" and add a second, hidden meaning to things....and although el palo might mean that the guy wants to hit her with a stick....given that men have a tendancy to be macho....I would guess it's playing with the notion that he's going to "passionately" teach her a lesson about who the real man is....

BTW....someone mentioned Niche and it's significance....yes, Colombians consider Niche as a "black" person....and the original singer for Grupo Niche is not Tito Gomez....it's Alvaro del Castillo and Jairo Varela himself....and he was a black man.

just for fun....here are the lyrics:

La negra no quiere,
no quiere bailar,
no quiere gozar
ni estar conmigo.

Ella es como la paloma
cuando de vuelo se va,
ella es como una paloma
cuando de vuelo se va, y que?
CORO: Revolotea por aqui,
revolotea por alla.

VERSE: Yo que tanto la queria
y por otro me dejo,
yo que tanto la queria
y por otro me dejo,
y yo que todos los dias
le daba aji con pacon (?).

Revolotea por aqui,
revolotea por alla.

Con la punta'el palo,
con el medio palo,
con el palo entero